B3 Bi-Turbo vs. B3 S Bi-Turbo Power and Torque graphs

def90cars · Post by **def90cars** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:02 pm

All the extra oomph is "at the top end" then.

sherlock · Post by **sherlock** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:18 pm

def90cars wrote:All the extra oomph is "at the top end" then.

Yes, precisely where the B3 was a bit disappointing. It should be close to perfect now. Hopefully it comes with the right sound.

Richy_Boy · Post by **Richy_Boy** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:38 pm

Removed.. my figures were rubbish

Rich

B3-Cabrio · Post by **B3-Cabrio** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:31 am

Just to put in perspective the progress made by ALPINA engineers in 15 years, I overlaid the numbers of my humble ALPINA B3 3.0 ...

Steve A · Post by **Steve A** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:48 pm

Richy_Boy wrote:Taken a quick look online for how a remapped 335i/d compares to the B3 and S BT models.

Standard 335i remapped - Â£400
BHP = 348 bhp
Torque = 489

Standard 335d remapped - Â£599
BHP = 350 bhp
Torque = 730 ftlb

Alpina B3 BT
BHP = 360 bhp
Torque = 500 ftlb this is NM so 368 Lbft

Alpina B3S BT
BHP = 400 bhp
Torque = 540 ftlb This

The B3S BT must be a proper rapid car

Rich

It will be a fast car but your FtLb are actually NM

A friend on E90 post, has 335i coupe remapped by evolve, and his car produces a dyno certified 396BHP and 430 LBFT which is 583nm but it isnt as thoroughly engineered as the ALPINA conversion.

Aiders · Post by **Aiders** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:19 pm

Out of curiosity does anybody know definitively, or seen a good article describing, what the engine differences are between the B3S Bi-Turbo and the B3 Bi-Turbo?

Having compared the online specifications of the B3S Bi-Turbo against an old brochure I have for the B3 Bi-Turbo, it would appear that the compression ratios are the same and the only differences I have seen mentioned on some websites are 1.2bar instead of 1.1bar and potentially a different exhaust?

No prizes for guessing what I am thinking

def90cars · Post by **def90cars** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:42 pm

Aiders wrote:No prizes for guessing what I am thinking

Dannii got the body, but Kylie got the looks though?

Aiders · Post by **Aiders** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:56 am

def90cars wrote:Dannii got the body, but Kylie got the looks though?

PMSL

That wasn't quite what I was thinking, but now you mention it...

pete · Post by **pete** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:17 pm

def90cars wrote:
Aiders wrote:No prizes for guessing what I am thinking
Dannii got the body, but Kylie got the looks though?

Having met Danni trust me you'd rather give her a kick up the backside.

Richy_Boy · Post by **Richy_Boy** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:25 pm

From a man that probably sits in his car once a week right now, you have too much time in hotel rooms thinking about such things. Your car is plenty quick enough, but yes, a remap will easily see you hitting B3S BT figures assuming your turbos are man-enough.

Considering my old Nissan was hitting 1.2bar on a bog standard T28, I'd of thought it would be fine! ..and that has 300bhp and 310ftlb from a 2.0 engine!

Rich

sherlock · Post by **sherlock** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:25 pm

Aiders wrote:Out of curiosity does anybody know definitively, or seen a good article describing, what the engine differences are between the B3S Bi-Turbo and the B3 Bi-Turbo?

Having compared the online specifications of the B3S Bi-Turbo against an old brochure I have for the B3 Bi-Turbo, it would appear that the compression ratios are the same and the only differences I have seen mentioned on some websites are 1.2bar instead of 1.1bar and potentially a different exhaust?

No prizes for guessing what I am thinking

This is what Alpina told me (maybe not complete)

Engine management Siemens MSD 81 allowing 1,2 bar (instead of MSD80)
Air flow intake different from BMW one (see "Alpina" logo on airbox), creating "vortex" effect (air acceleration)
Exhaust modified for less back pressure
Bigger oil cooler, placed on the left of the engine bay
Additional water cooler (inexistant on host BMW) placed on the right
New front spoiler directing air flow on these 2 radiators
Gearbox ZF 6HP19 TU modified (with different flywheel, specific management and extra planetary to allow quicker shifts), instead of 6HP19
Tyres 245 front /265 rear (instead of 225 /255)
Emission classification Euro 5 (Euro 4) .

Engine bloc, crank and pistons: unchanged from B3
Gearbox ratios : unchanged from B3

Richy_Boy · Post by **Richy_Boy** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:01 pm

All B3/D3 BTs have the 6HP19TU gearbox I believe..

Interesting they have gone to all the trouble to up the cooling, but hey, I guess they need to provide a warranty on the car no matter how it's driven.

335i's are remapped to something like 13.5psi (8.8 as standard), where as the B3S is 17.5!

Even stranger then how a Dinan remap @13.2psi produces 384bhp (5700rpm) and 421 lb-ft (570nm) on its own?!

Rich

sherlock · Post by **sherlock** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:08 pm

Richy_Boy wrote:All B3/D3 BTs have the 6HP19TU gearbox I believe..

Rich

Correct for 2009. My B3 catalog for comparison was of 2007..

sherlock · Post by **sherlock** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:13 pm

Richy_Boy wrote: 335i's are remapped to something like 13.5psi (8.8 as standard), where as the B3S is 17.5!
Rich

The compression ratio on the 335i is 10,2. On the B3, it's 9,4, thanks to the modified (Mahle) pistons. Lower ratio allows higher boost pressure.
A "simple" remap does not change the compression ratio as "hardware" mod is needed .