Hi all,
The B3 Bi turbo has been the most expensive of all my cars I've bought at 38.5K.
I took the easy route and let Sytners sort out the deal and I chose to go with a PCP. They offered what seems to me and voiced by the sales man a healthy BMW guaranteed price of £25500 after 3 years and the car will be then 3.5 years old. Bottom line is I will pay out total 20K over the 3 years which seems in keeping with depreciation at around 7K per year. I guess I can then hand it back in/or possibly buy it from them at hopefully a lesser price.
Appreciate any views as to if this is a sensible choice, as an alternative when the capital from the sale of the Audi is available could put this towards paying it all off, but maybe this isn't such a bright idea, not sure.
Peter
Is there a wise choice for buying these days?
-
Peter&Janet
- ALPINA
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:38 pm
- Location: Bingham Notts
Is there a wise choice for buying these days?
520D Estate black Current Car
M135i Mineral grey Oyster auto Sold 2015
B3 Bi Turbo 102 Space Grey Sold Jun 2012
B3 Bi Turbo 109 Alpina Blue. Sold Jul 2009
RoadsterS sold April 2008
B2.5 sold 1996 K reg 4 dr. Sterling silver
Janets 123D 5d auto (2010) Sold
M135i Mineral grey Oyster auto Sold 2015
B3 Bi Turbo 102 Space Grey Sold Jun 2012
B3 Bi Turbo 109 Alpina Blue. Sold Jul 2009
RoadsterS sold April 2008
B2.5 sold 1996 K reg 4 dr. Sterling silver
Janets 123D 5d auto (2010) Sold
The quality will be remembered, long after the price is forgotten... 
Seriously, there are lots of people to take a chunk out of you: BMW, Alpina, Sytners, the finance company; chances are you might be able to do a better deal, maybe with straight finance from another lender, or try a different car at a different dealer, but if you weren't comfortable you wouldn't have signed. If you have, it's a bit academic.
If you sell the Audi, & can pay some off under that deal, maybe that'll prove a better place for the cash than a bank, but maybe not. With interest rates the way they are, you'll need to look around to find the best bet. It might be worth banking it to pay off the balloon at the end. A PCP is just a different way of milking you - they're making the monthly palatable, just with a punch at the end, but that might make it more comfortable.
A good friend of mine is in finance for Mercedes: he brought PCPs in, when he worked for a different finance house: he regularly points out the sad irony that the only people who ever make any money out of cars are...the dealers...the manufacturers...their suppliers...the service agents...the finance houses...the government...the auction houses....the recovery companies...him...! Somehow, the humble car fan never features, except in the giving out stakes! But you get the picture...
Do what I do - every time I think cash is a bit tight, I burn a bit of Shell & it all settles back into perspective. And make sure, if you do have to spend out, it's a car worth having...oh, you already did that!
Seriously, there are lots of people to take a chunk out of you: BMW, Alpina, Sytners, the finance company; chances are you might be able to do a better deal, maybe with straight finance from another lender, or try a different car at a different dealer, but if you weren't comfortable you wouldn't have signed. If you have, it's a bit academic.
If you sell the Audi, & can pay some off under that deal, maybe that'll prove a better place for the cash than a bank, but maybe not. With interest rates the way they are, you'll need to look around to find the best bet. It might be worth banking it to pay off the balloon at the end. A PCP is just a different way of milking you - they're making the monthly palatable, just with a punch at the end, but that might make it more comfortable.
A good friend of mine is in finance for Mercedes: he brought PCPs in, when he worked for a different finance house: he regularly points out the sad irony that the only people who ever make any money out of cars are...the dealers...the manufacturers...their suppliers...the service agents...the finance houses...the government...the auction houses....the recovery companies...him...! Somehow, the humble car fan never features, except in the giving out stakes! But you get the picture...
Do what I do - every time I think cash is a bit tight, I burn a bit of Shell & it all settles back into perspective. And make sure, if you do have to spend out, it's a car worth having...oh, you already did that!
When i have bought cars outright in the past, thinking im saving on the interest i always get tmepted to sell and move on just because i can. This is when you get hammered with lots and lots of depreciation.
When i have financed them, i tend to keep them longer. So even if it costs me interest i dont lose as much because i only suffer one lot of depreciation.
Its always going to be such a personnal situation i think its got to be yourself that makes the decision.
When i have financed them, i tend to keep them longer. So even if it costs me interest i dont lose as much because i only suffer one lot of depreciation.
Its always going to be such a personnal situation i think its got to be yourself that makes the decision.
RS4 Saloon 2007 Daytona Grey
M6 Coupe Indianapolis Red
ML420CDI Sport
M6 Coupe Indianapolis Red
ML420CDI Sport
This is absolutely what I tend to do. Maybe I either need to therefore go for a finance package or go and see if the doctor can prescribe something for increased willpowerSteve A wrote:When i have bought cars outright in the past, thinking im saving on the interest i always get tmepted to sell and move on just because i can. This is when you get hammered with lots and lots of depreciation.
When i have financed them, i tend to keep them longer. So even if it costs me interest i dont lose as much because i only suffer one lot of depreciation.
Its always going to be such a personnal situation i think its got to be yourself that makes the decision.
-
Peter&Janet
- ALPINA
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:38 pm
- Location: Bingham Notts
Hi Mark & Steve,
Thanks for the thoughts,
I'm comfortable with the repayments but I could pay it all off. The thing that the sales men pointed out was that with the guaranteed value of the car that BMW will bring the car back in at is likely to be much greater than the street value of the car due to the present market conditions, this recession may well last a few years, so it could be I could end up with a car of a value say 18K at the end of the term and re finance it for this lower amount, it would then make buying the car outright a bigger loss maker, ho hum, I think I'm talking myself into staying with the deal, still not sure it's probably a pure gamble, a bit like my private but now non pension.
Peter
Thanks for the thoughts,
I'm comfortable with the repayments but I could pay it all off. The thing that the sales men pointed out was that with the guaranteed value of the car that BMW will bring the car back in at is likely to be much greater than the street value of the car due to the present market conditions, this recession may well last a few years, so it could be I could end up with a car of a value say 18K at the end of the term and re finance it for this lower amount, it would then make buying the car outright a bigger loss maker, ho hum, I think I'm talking myself into staying with the deal, still not sure it's probably a pure gamble, a bit like my private but now non pension.
Peter
520D Estate black Current Car
M135i Mineral grey Oyster auto Sold 2015
B3 Bi Turbo 102 Space Grey Sold Jun 2012
B3 Bi Turbo 109 Alpina Blue. Sold Jul 2009
RoadsterS sold April 2008
B2.5 sold 1996 K reg 4 dr. Sterling silver
Janets 123D 5d auto (2010) Sold
M135i Mineral grey Oyster auto Sold 2015
B3 Bi Turbo 102 Space Grey Sold Jun 2012
B3 Bi Turbo 109 Alpina Blue. Sold Jul 2009
RoadsterS sold April 2008
B2.5 sold 1996 K reg 4 dr. Sterling silver
Janets 123D 5d auto (2010) Sold
Peter this is exactly the same situation as when we bought the roadster - we got a really good/high residual figure and therefore we could see that the car will never be worth as much money as BMW Finance have underwritten. Therefore we decided to put a very small deposit into the car and that and the monthly payments are the total sum of the depreciation we will incur over the 3 years - in this financial climate this is the best chance of fixed price motoring, yes on a PCP scheme like this you pay interest on the whole sum - but we're not going to be in a negative equity situation that so many are experiencing on these big engined motors..Peter&Janet wrote:Hi Mark & Steve,
Thanks for the thoughts,
I'm comfortable with the repayments but I could pay it all off. The thing that the sales men pointed out was that with the guaranteed value of the car that BMW will bring the car back in at is likely to be much greater than the street value of the car due to the present market conditions, this recession may well last a few years, so it could be I could end up with a car of a value say 18K at the end of the term and re finance it for this lower amount, it would then make buying the car outright a bigger loss maker, ho hum, I think I'm talking myself into staying with the deal, still not sure it's probably a pure gamble, a bit like my private but now non pension.
Peter
As you say your residual of £25k is likely to be more than what the car is worth in 3 years times and is because the market hasn't got definative experience of the B3 at the mo, (ie: it's too new and like a lot of ALPINA's are an unknown quantity) and is better than you'd get on a similarly priced M3 (by quite some way) and i'm sure in another 12-18 months you'll see these residual figures brought more inline with real world values - until this time the risk is at BMW's door so a good time to strike a deal.
2011 BMW 520d M Sport Saloon
2008 BMW 120i M Sport 5 Door
Previous ALPINAs
1984 E28 B9 3.5
1989 E32 B11 3.5
2000 E39 B10 V8 Touring
2005 E85 Roadster S #344
Twitter: d4bmw (follow me for all the latest ALPINA updates and other car related guff)
2008 BMW 120i M Sport 5 Door
Previous ALPINAs
1984 E28 B9 3.5
1989 E32 B11 3.5
2000 E39 B10 V8 Touring
2005 E85 Roadster S #344
Twitter: d4bmw (follow me for all the latest ALPINA updates and other car related guff)
I certainly don't intend to 'buy' a car for the wife again.
It'll be PCP/PCH for me from now on, 100%.
Firstly, it's often cheaper than buying.
Some of the PCP/PCH deals going around are outstanding.
1/ I can get her much better cars for the same monthly outlay, or I can get her a similar car for less monthly outlay.
2/ She can have whatever bloody awful colour she wants without me worrying about resale. Her current favourite is the new Fiesta in, I kid you not, 'Hot Magenta'.
3/ As stated above, no hassles with resale advertising/timewasters
4/ They pay the roadtax every year.
I look upon it as a glorified mobile phone contract.
Just keep making the payments and 'upgrade' every few years.
Marvellous.
It'll be PCP/PCH for me from now on, 100%.
Firstly, it's often cheaper than buying.
Some of the PCP/PCH deals going around are outstanding.
1/ I can get her much better cars for the same monthly outlay, or I can get her a similar car for less monthly outlay.
2/ She can have whatever bloody awful colour she wants without me worrying about resale. Her current favourite is the new Fiesta in, I kid you not, 'Hot Magenta'.
3/ As stated above, no hassles with resale advertising/timewasters
4/ They pay the roadtax every year.
I look upon it as a glorified mobile phone contract.
Just keep making the payments and 'upgrade' every few years.
Marvellous.
There will be some very hot deals about.
The main reason for this is that in the current climate manufacturers do not want to visibly discount below a certain level (certainly not approaching their costs), so just like the sofa manufacturers they will start to offer very attractive finance deals that allow them to conceal discounts and still sell vehicles at so called 'list' prices.
The manufacturers will in some instances have to underwrite these deals (guaranteed future values) and subsidise the interest rates (GMAC are famous for this).
The US has been doing this for years (which is part of the reason why they are beyond resue now, as it has become the norm) and the knock on effect on the second hand car market can be disasterous - but what do they care as long as they sell new cars? In the US second hand vehicle are phenomenally cheap - look at the prices of used 911's relative to Europe, even after the dollar swing.
For that reason, anyone considering this option should carefully consider the long term value, especially if they are being offered a deal that does not secure the future value of the vehicle and clear termination procedure at the end of the term.
The lease companies have been offering what is effectively finance of the depreciation element for 6 months plus, and we are now seeing the manufacturers do the same.
Make sure you get...
1. Discount off list, regardless of finance arrangements
2. Low interest rates (0% ideally, but certainly no more than BoE)
3. Guaranteed future values
4. Written confirmation that the vehicle can be handed back without penalty at the end of term
5. Clarity on early settlement fees
The last two are statutory (i.e. they must be explained clearly) but make sure you are aware of what they are.
January will be very interesting, becasue I suspect that the uptake of cheap finance deals will not be sufficient to sell-through stocks, and so the manufacturers will be put to the test on their willingness to openly offer VERY significant discounts. There are several airfields/docks across the us that are already full of unsold cars!
The main reason for this is that in the current climate manufacturers do not want to visibly discount below a certain level (certainly not approaching their costs), so just like the sofa manufacturers they will start to offer very attractive finance deals that allow them to conceal discounts and still sell vehicles at so called 'list' prices.
The manufacturers will in some instances have to underwrite these deals (guaranteed future values) and subsidise the interest rates (GMAC are famous for this).
The US has been doing this for years (which is part of the reason why they are beyond resue now, as it has become the norm) and the knock on effect on the second hand car market can be disasterous - but what do they care as long as they sell new cars? In the US second hand vehicle are phenomenally cheap - look at the prices of used 911's relative to Europe, even after the dollar swing.
For that reason, anyone considering this option should carefully consider the long term value, especially if they are being offered a deal that does not secure the future value of the vehicle and clear termination procedure at the end of the term.
The lease companies have been offering what is effectively finance of the depreciation element for 6 months plus, and we are now seeing the manufacturers do the same.
Make sure you get...
1. Discount off list, regardless of finance arrangements
2. Low interest rates (0% ideally, but certainly no more than BoE)
3. Guaranteed future values
4. Written confirmation that the vehicle can be handed back without penalty at the end of term
5. Clarity on early settlement fees
The last two are statutory (i.e. they must be explained clearly) but make sure you are aware of what they are.
January will be very interesting, becasue I suspect that the uptake of cheap finance deals will not be sufficient to sell-through stocks, and so the manufacturers will be put to the test on their willingness to openly offer VERY significant discounts. There are several airfields/docks across the us that are already full of unsold cars!
...and don't be fooled into accepting a salemans word that the likes of BMW 'make to order' and therefore do not produce to stock.
Their production lines and supply chains are planned months in advance, and are very difficult to stop. Vanilla cars are running down the lines on a daily basis, waiting for the customer order to personalise. In theory they carefully plan this so that production is just level with demand, but they cannot respond to significant variation in demand (eg >25% at BMW) so expect a number of 'special editions' and management vehicles to start appearing.
Their production lines and supply chains are planned months in advance, and are very difficult to stop. Vanilla cars are running down the lines on a daily basis, waiting for the customer order to personalise. In theory they carefully plan this so that production is just level with demand, but they cannot respond to significant variation in demand (eg >25% at BMW) so expect a number of 'special editions' and management vehicles to start appearing.
