Alignment and steering
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Alignment and steering
Hi all,
I recently had new tyres fitted and the car had a 4 wheel alignment.
Pior to this I changed the track rod arms as previously the alignment was a pig to do, I also changed the rear camber and toe bolts with plenty of grease for good measure.
Right so...
Does the car have active steering?
secondly the alignment was carried out on a hunter machine and weight was added to the car - last time I had it done no weights were added?
Also now the car feels very pointy especially at high speed.
Also DTC seem to intervene when braking moderately in a straight line or when turning into flowing right hand bend - it never did this before?
Thanks
I recently had new tyres fitted and the car had a 4 wheel alignment.
Pior to this I changed the track rod arms as previously the alignment was a pig to do, I also changed the rear camber and toe bolts with plenty of grease for good measure.
Right so...
Does the car have active steering?
secondly the alignment was carried out on a hunter machine and weight was added to the car - last time I had it done no weights were added?
Also now the car feels very pointy especially at high speed.
Also DTC seem to intervene when braking moderately in a straight line or when turning into flowing right hand bend - it never did this before?
Thanks
Re: Alignment and steering
Might be useful to know which model you have.
Did the garage use the correct ALPINA specs rather than BMW? Your Supplementary Handbook should have the correct details.
Did the garage use the correct ALPINA specs rather than BMW? Your Supplementary Handbook should have the correct details.
B3 3.2 TOURING #062
Re: Alignment and steering
Have you checked your tyre pressures? Seems like they may be over-inflated. Alpina recommend 2.1(F) & 2.2(R) Bar for the E90 D3
Toby
2011 D3BT #454
2019 440i Gran Coupe
2011 D3BT #454
2019 440i Gran Coupe
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Re: Alignment and steering
Hi there,
Car is a E91 BT D3. The used the hunter machine and selected the touring model e91 BT D3.
Only option is gave them was with or without active steering.
Pressures are spot on - certainly when cold or are they meant to be running those pressures when hot?
Just been out in the car this morning and the abs is soo sensitive its dry here and just kicks in, I had the brakes bled a few months ago so nice and firm pedal - i used dot Castrol performance fluid.
Thanks
Car is a E91 BT D3. The used the hunter machine and selected the touring model e91 BT D3.
Only option is gave them was with or without active steering.
Pressures are spot on - certainly when cold or are they meant to be running those pressures when hot?
Just been out in the car this morning and the abs is soo sensitive its dry here and just kicks in, I had the brakes bled a few months ago so nice and firm pedal - i used dot Castrol performance fluid.
Thanks
Re: Alignment and steering
I've just checked the two UK Price Lists I have for the E9x D3 BT and neither (Nov-09 & Jan-11) mention an Active Steering option.
Given the description of what it does I imagine it should be immediately apparent if you did have it. It also sounds very unlikely a UK D3 BT would have it given they are predominately all the same spec with very few ticking the Bespoke Order box.
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228403
Given the description of what it does I imagine it should be immediately apparent if you did have it. It also sounds very unlikely a UK D3 BT would have it given they are predominately all the same spec with very few ticking the Bespoke Order box.
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228403
B3 3.2 TOURING #062
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Re: Alignment and steering
Interesting stuff.
I’ll get the garage to realign the car by selecting the correct option. Im not sure how this would affect the alignment? I agree doubt mine has it and given how It works I don’t think I have it. Is there a way to be sure? Checking against chassis Number?
Also could this be the trigger for the abs/ dtc?
One thing I forgot to mention when I picked the car up once it had new track rods and rear camber / toe bolts the car was severely pulling to the right when driving and just before I reached the alignment place the traction control light came on including tyre pressures. All pressure were fine etc and I reset the indicator.
I’ve take it round to the garage to have the car plugged in to see what the faults are - just seems strange for this to happen at the same time.
Thanks
I’ll get the garage to realign the car by selecting the correct option. Im not sure how this would affect the alignment? I agree doubt mine has it and given how It works I don’t think I have it. Is there a way to be sure? Checking against chassis Number?
Also could this be the trigger for the abs/ dtc?
One thing I forgot to mention when I picked the car up once it had new track rods and rear camber / toe bolts the car was severely pulling to the right when driving and just before I reached the alignment place the traction control light came on including tyre pressures. All pressure were fine etc and I reset the indicator.
I’ve take it round to the garage to have the car plugged in to see what the faults are - just seems strange for this to happen at the same time.
Thanks
Re: Alignment and steering
Couple of thoughts:
The DTC issue may be to do with the ABS sensor/sensor ring on the wheel hub - a failed sensor or corroded sensor ring will become apparent when changing direction. Last time that happened to me, going round roundabouts was a nightmare as the OSR sensor/ring had failed and the TC kept kicking in because it thought I was experiencing excessive slip on that corner.
What tyres do you have on the car? I ask as I once put Pirelli P-Zero tyres on mine and they lasted about 90 miles before handing them back as it was moving all over the place (despite the alignment being correct). Replaced with Michelin PS and everything was glorious again.
The DTC issue may be to do with the ABS sensor/sensor ring on the wheel hub - a failed sensor or corroded sensor ring will become apparent when changing direction. Last time that happened to me, going round roundabouts was a nightmare as the OSR sensor/ring had failed and the TC kept kicking in because it thought I was experiencing excessive slip on that corner.
What tyres do you have on the car? I ask as I once put Pirelli P-Zero tyres on mine and they lasted about 90 miles before handing them back as it was moving all over the place (despite the alignment being correct). Replaced with Michelin PS and everything was glorious again.
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Re: Alignment and steering
If the car is pointy at high speed it could be the rear toe that’s wrong. Toe in on the rear provides better straight line stability.
Sounds like the techs have set it up wrong to me.
Sounds like the techs have set it up wrong to me.
Adam
Alpina XD3 #193
Alpina C2 2.7 #0525
E36 M3 Saloon
E30 track car M52
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BMW - E30 325sport x2, 318is, 325 touring, E36 Coupe 318is, M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 123d, F30 335d, F22 M240
Ford - Capri 2.0x2, 2.8x3, 3000gxl, RS3100, RS Cosworth Sierra 3dr, Cosworth Sapphire & Escort 4wd, RS2000, RS Focus Mk1 x2 & Mk2, Mondeo V6
Opel Kadette 1.2 S RWD (first car)
Alpina XD3 #193
Alpina C2 2.7 #0525
E36 M3 Saloon
E30 track car M52
Previous
BMW - E30 325sport x2, 318is, 325 touring, E36 Coupe 318is, M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 123d, F30 335d, F22 M240
Ford - Capri 2.0x2, 2.8x3, 3000gxl, RS3100, RS Cosworth Sierra 3dr, Cosworth Sapphire & Escort 4wd, RS2000, RS Focus Mk1 x2 & Mk2, Mondeo V6
Opel Kadette 1.2 S RWD (first car)
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Re: Alignment and steering
Thanks for pointers - I think the fact that active steering was selected on the hunter machine could potentially put out the other settings. Also does someone know if adding weight to the car is correct? I also had a full tank of fuel too but the garaged placed several bags of sand as they said the machine required it.
Can someone confirm what the actual pressures I should be running along with if they are to be set hot or cold?
In regards to the DTC / ABS, if it is a dodgy wheel sensor of sort can this be flagged up when scanning the car with a computer?
Currently they are no permeant lights on.
Thanks
Can someone confirm what the actual pressures I should be running along with if they are to be set hot or cold?
In regards to the DTC / ABS, if it is a dodgy wheel sensor of sort can this be flagged up when scanning the car with a computer?
Currently they are no permeant lights on.
Thanks
Re: Alignment and steering
Recommended tyre pressures are for cold tyres.
2000 E39 B10 3.3 Touring #10
1993 Eunos Roadster
1993 Saab Turbo 900 Ruby Edition
Gone but not forgotten: Ford Escort Mk 2 1600 Sport, Alfasud, Saab 900 GLS, Saab 900 Turbo (8v), MB W124 E320 Sportline Estate, Honda Accord 1.8S 6th Gen
1993 Eunos Roadster
1993 Saab Turbo 900 Ruby Edition
Gone but not forgotten: Ford Escort Mk 2 1600 Sport, Alfasud, Saab 900 GLS, Saab 900 Turbo (8v), MB W124 E320 Sportline Estate, Honda Accord 1.8S 6th Gen
Re: Alignment and steering
It’s normal practice to set up race cars with weight in to mimic the driver when setting up geo and corner weights. I have never seen this when setting up a road car, as the load can vary with different numbers of passengers or boot contents, so it’s not critical. But I would have a full tank of fuel.BTCC_racer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:12 pmAlso does someone know if adding weight to the car is correct? I also had a full tank of fuel too but the garaged placed several bags of sand as they said the machine required it.
Adam
Alpina XD3 #193
Alpina C2 2.7 #0525
E36 M3 Saloon
E30 track car M52
Previous
BMW - E30 325sport x2, 318is, 325 touring, E36 Coupe 318is, M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 123d, F30 335d, F22 M240
Ford - Capri 2.0x2, 2.8x3, 3000gxl, RS3100, RS Cosworth Sierra 3dr, Cosworth Sapphire & Escort 4wd, RS2000, RS Focus Mk1 x2 & Mk2, Mondeo V6
Opel Kadette 1.2 S RWD (first car)
Alpina XD3 #193
Alpina C2 2.7 #0525
E36 M3 Saloon
E30 track car M52
Previous
BMW - E30 325sport x2, 318is, 325 touring, E36 Coupe 318is, M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 123d, F30 335d, F22 M240
Ford - Capri 2.0x2, 2.8x3, 3000gxl, RS3100, RS Cosworth Sierra 3dr, Cosworth Sapphire & Escort 4wd, RS2000, RS Focus Mk1 x2 & Mk2, Mondeo V6
Opel Kadette 1.2 S RWD (first car)
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Re: Alignment and steering
According the Hunter machine weight is required?
My pressures according the cars sticker is 2.2 fronts and 2.6 Rear (Bar).
This indicated four passengers and luggage - surly it should be lower I don't have passengers 95% of the time?
There is no pressures given for less passengers.
Any help would be appreciated.
My pressures according the cars sticker is 2.2 fronts and 2.6 Rear (Bar).
This indicated four passengers and luggage - surly it should be lower I don't have passengers 95% of the time?
There is no pressures given for less passengers.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: Alignment and steering
For consistencey it makes sense to have a full tank of fuel.
In my opinion the differences between weighting the drivers seat (and other seats) makes very little difference on a road car. Road imperfactions and inconsitencies will far out weight any these extra steps.
My suggestion is to aim for symmetry (look at the post alignment print out).
Also,
1. Same make/model and age of tyres on front axle. Same pressures.
2. Same make/model and age of tyres on rear axle. Same pressures.
3. Full tank of fuel (and ad-blue).
4. Hunter ramps level (ask when the garage last confirmed this, and how).
5. Car on ramps, bounced a few times and rolled back and forth to let everything settle.
6. Check all suspension and steering componnets.
7. Go through adjustments procedure, starting at rear and finish with front toe *.
8. Irrespective of whether one uses Alpina or BMW parameters (or different) the aim is symmetry.
* Before any alignment I park my car in my level garage (with pressures checked and full fluids) and centre the steering wheel by eye and with a torpedo level ... while sitting in the drivers seat. Using masking tape on the wheel boss and column shroud I mark the correct alignment. Why do this? Well the one trait people notice post alignment is steering wheel angle relative to travelling "straight". This is most greatly influenced by front toe and for this to be set correctly the steering wheel needs to be centre correctly before adjustment. Despit using buble gauges and clamps and peering in from the drives door or window (whilst balancing on the ramp!) this is can easily be got wrong. So by doing your homework one can remove all the subjectivity from the operation. I have learnt that even the best can get this most important and final adjustment wrong.
Note, even if the BMW settings are used instead of the Alpina ones, it should drive true in a straight line at and above UK speed limits. If it does not, and the behaviour under breaking, acceleration or turning is odd or dangerous, then it is likely something is worn or broken. Defective tyres (even if they look good) is a common cause. Had this on my E90 D3 BT ... swapped rears side to side and pull on acceleration reversed; replaced both rears, all OK.
In my opinion the differences between weighting the drivers seat (and other seats) makes very little difference on a road car. Road imperfactions and inconsitencies will far out weight any these extra steps.
My suggestion is to aim for symmetry (look at the post alignment print out).
Also,
1. Same make/model and age of tyres on front axle. Same pressures.
2. Same make/model and age of tyres on rear axle. Same pressures.
3. Full tank of fuel (and ad-blue).
4. Hunter ramps level (ask when the garage last confirmed this, and how).
5. Car on ramps, bounced a few times and rolled back and forth to let everything settle.
6. Check all suspension and steering componnets.
7. Go through adjustments procedure, starting at rear and finish with front toe *.
8. Irrespective of whether one uses Alpina or BMW parameters (or different) the aim is symmetry.
* Before any alignment I park my car in my level garage (with pressures checked and full fluids) and centre the steering wheel by eye and with a torpedo level ... while sitting in the drivers seat. Using masking tape on the wheel boss and column shroud I mark the correct alignment. Why do this? Well the one trait people notice post alignment is steering wheel angle relative to travelling "straight". This is most greatly influenced by front toe and for this to be set correctly the steering wheel needs to be centre correctly before adjustment. Despit using buble gauges and clamps and peering in from the drives door or window (whilst balancing on the ramp!) this is can easily be got wrong. So by doing your homework one can remove all the subjectivity from the operation. I have learnt that even the best can get this most important and final adjustment wrong.
Note, even if the BMW settings are used instead of the Alpina ones, it should drive true in a straight line at and above UK speed limits. If it does not, and the behaviour under breaking, acceleration or turning is odd or dangerous, then it is likely something is worn or broken. Defective tyres (even if they look good) is a common cause. Had this on my E90 D3 BT ... swapped rears side to side and pull on acceleration reversed; replaced both rears, all OK.
Present & Past: Alpina D3BT (F31); Alpina D3 S (G21); Subaru Forester XT (SG 2.0); Porsche 718 Cayman; Golf R (Mk7); 911 (997.2); 911 (996); Subaru WRX STI (Hatch); Alpina D3BT (E90); BMW 330i (E91); Elise (S1); Skoda Fabia VRS (Mk1); Peugeot 106 GTi; Skoda Octovia VRS (Mk2 estate); Subaru Impreza WRX (Wagon); Subaru Impreza Turbo (Wagon); Lancia Delta Integrale Evo; Golf VR6; Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9; BMW M3 (E30); Peugeot 106 GTi; Renault Clio 16v; Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9; Escort Mk3; Escort Mk1
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Re: Alignment and steering
"Pointy" - perhaps they set it with toe-out at the front.
Can you post the after alignement printout from the Hunter?
Can you post the after alignement printout from the Hunter?
Present & Past: Alpina D3BT (F31); Alpina D3 S (G21); Subaru Forester XT (SG 2.0); Porsche 718 Cayman; Golf R (Mk7); 911 (997.2); 911 (996); Subaru WRX STI (Hatch); Alpina D3BT (E90); BMW 330i (E91); Elise (S1); Skoda Fabia VRS (Mk1); Peugeot 106 GTi; Skoda Octovia VRS (Mk2 estate); Subaru Impreza WRX (Wagon); Subaru Impreza Turbo (Wagon); Lancia Delta Integrale Evo; Golf VR6; Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9; BMW M3 (E30); Peugeot 106 GTi; Renault Clio 16v; Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9; Escort Mk3; Escort Mk1
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Re: Alignment and steering
E90 D3 BiT here. I've had the alignment checked and adjusted several times whenever certain supension parts have been changed. The hunter alpina settings pair off with the values from Alpina and I've never used the active steering option, not that I believe it gives differing values.
End of life springs, shocks, failing front top mount bearings, failing roll bar bushings/drop links and failing suspension RMS/bushings in general can give steering sensations beyond nominal OEM.
End of life springs, shocks, failing front top mount bearings, failing roll bar bushings/drop links and failing suspension RMS/bushings in general can give steering sensations beyond nominal OEM.
- Ninety Right
BMW Alpina E90 D3 BiTurbo
BMW Alpina E90 D3 BiTurbo