Educate me please....

[Cygnet]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

Please consider recoding the traction control system to the latter CSL/CS logic, it is much better it doesn’t intervene as much and gives a better feel on the limit. I got mine done by a guy on Cutters and it transformed the car for fast road. I’m not sure that you can do it with the early cars but the LCI had the same modules as the CSL.

Thanks Adam, I’ll bear that in mind.

[B10BRW]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

I agree, I thought the autobox in both my B3 3.3 Cab and my B3S Cab were not up to the job, the B3S engine in the E85 Roadster paired with a manual box is so much better.

Why Alpina only produced the E46 with a manual box for Europe is a mystery, as Simon 13 has shown it can be done.

[ali]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

That has been my only gripe with my B3 is the auto and buttons. I swappped out my stering wheel for an M3 paddle shift one and the paddles make more spirited driving more pleasureable. I'm lucky in that I do have another car for all my RWD manual box pleasures so I've always put up with the B3 as is.

[Yad3100]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

That has been my only gripe with my B3 is the auto and buttons. I swappped out my stering wheel for an M3 paddle shift one and the paddles make more spirited driving more pleasureable. I'm lucky in that I do have another car for all my RWD manual box pleasures so I've always put up with the B3 as is.

TBH it’s the one reason that has prevented me having an alpina all these years. Never could get on with early autos, even tried a M3 SMG and hated it. The DCT in the E9x was great, but my first experience of the ZF was a loan M135 and I thought it was so good for a daily, all my daily’s since have been the ZF auto.

[AG]

I find the Alpina auto settings far better than its BMW base car settings and although the BMW auto box is slow in comparison (in my e46 330i for eg) I do prefer driving an auto as today I'm quite a lazy driver who is happy for the box to do its thing.

The B3 vs M3 is a hot debate thats been around since time began, I can only go by the e36 M3 3.0 v's a B3 3.0 and in reality I preferred the B3 as the power and response was quite low down, the M3 by comparison was high up in the rev range and although it sounded glorious, the B3 proved to be a better daily.

[ScooBeeFive]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

I really wish you could buy a manual B3 as well.....

[Yad3100]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

I really wish you could buy a manual B3 as well.....

Could be done. A box from a 330 should fit or the early M3 5 speed which they use in rally cars as it has bigger bearings (or so I’ve been told) than the 28 and 30 boxes. Clutch gubbins should be a direct fit, new flywheel and clutch. Likely to heed new diff as autos usually taller ratios, but not an expert of what’s in a B3. Costly if you get a garage to do it.
But
No longer an genuine alpina, it’s like converting a CSL to manual, easier to start with a manual M3 in the first place.

[Bob]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

I really wish you could buy a manual B3 as well.....

Could be done. A box from a 330 should fit or the early M3 5 speed which they use in rally cars as it has bigger bearings (or so I’ve been told) than the 28 and 30 boxes. Clutch gubbins should be a direct fit, new flywheel and clutch. Likely to heed new diff as autos usually taller ratios, but not an expert of what’s in a B3. Costly if you get a garage to do it.
But
No longer an genuine alpina, it’s like converting a CSL to manual, easier to start with a manual M3 in the first place.

Quite a few 3.3 & B3S' that have been now, BMR has certainly done a few and Simon has it documented in his B3S thread

[simon13]

you boys need to go 6 gang schalter!



i think it makes the gap between this and the M3 even smaller, in fact tiny.

I've converted 2 UK Alpinas now which you could say is naughty as they were rarer tourings but i'd go to grave as a drivers car the E36 and E46 were both much better. Unless you lived in central london or have your left leg missing for medical reasons.

As Brian said the later 3.4 B3S engine is a peach and wasted attatched to the 5 speed auto. They feel at odds imo

[bss325i]

I have an E46 M3 (manual) on its way to me very soon so will be able to make my own comparisons. I liked most things about the B3s except one in particular - the auto gearbox. I just couldn’t get on with it and felt the car would be so much better as a manual, but I know that’s personal choice and some will prefer the auto.

I really wish you could buy a manual B3 as well.....

Could be done. A box from a 330 should fit or the early M3 5 speed which they use in rally cars as it has bigger bearings (or so I’ve been told) than the 28 and 30 boxes. Clutch gubbins should be a direct fit, new flywheel and clutch. Likely to heed new diff as autos usually taller ratios, but not an expert of what’s in a B3. Costly if you get a garage to do it.
But
No longer an genuine alpina, it’s like converting a CSL to manual, easier to start with a manual M3 in the first place.

It’s easier to convert a CSL to manual than it is to make manual M3 into a CSL replica.

Converting an Alpina from auto to manual, it would still be a genuine Alpina just not an original unmodified one.

Alpina actually sold manual E46 B3 3.3 and B3S’s in Japan and LHD European markets so by converting one using the correct parts it would just be making something they didn’t offer in the UK.

Alpina used the 6 speed getrag box from the E36 M3 and E46 M3 depending on build date and a custom prop shaft.

I have converted many auto/SMG cars to manual including E46 M3, the two E46 Alpina B3’s mentioned in this thread and it’s easy enough to do.

[bss325i]

Having owned a few E46 M3’s, a few E46 Alpinas and driven more than I can remember of both (often back to back) including CSLs I have a lot of experience in the way the different.

BMW made many detail changes to the M3’s chassis compared to Alpina over the base car. All Alpina did was change the springs and dampers along with the geometry slightly where as the M3 has a wider track, different tyre sizes, much revised geometry and crucially an LSD.

Back to back driven by the same driver in the same conditions on a twisty road or track an M3 will leave a B3.

In a straight line again the M3 will pull on a B3 unless it’s a manual B3S where the gap will be closed quite a bit.

But this is not what the B3 is all about, outright performance is not its forte, refined useable performance is what it excels at.

Comparing the engines. The S54B32 (not S52) in the E46 M3 is a masterpiece of an NA engine of a little fragile in higher mileage especially if not looked after. Like many M power engines they need to see higher RPMs to perform at their best but this is what they are designed to do.

The engine in the E46 B3 and B3S can trace its roots back to the M50tu engine first used the E36 and E34 but is a bored and stroked version of the US market S52B32 as used in their E36 M3 as they didn’t get the Euro spec S50B32.

One of BMW’s most robust units on the whole and when bored and stroked had plenty of torque.