E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

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richb10touring
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E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:11 pm

So, the headgasket on number 77 went last month... It's gone between cylinders 5 and 6, in the same way that many others have gone. Down on power, runs very roughly, compression test shows 5 & 6 way down with 1 to 4 very healthy.

I've read all the threads I can find on here and have absorbed all of the excellent information regarding sourcing a gasket, being that they are the same as were fitted to US spec E36 M3s.

I'm going to DIY the replacement! I have no experience whatsoever, but am technical, methodical and enjoy this kind of thing :D Hopefully a decision I won't live to regret. I'm not going to attempt to document my trials and tribulations on here but will be posting occasional photos on the project on Instgram under @bichreaumont if anyone is into that kind of thing.

Stuff on the menu:
  • Full check for cracks at the machine shop
  • A full clean/blast of the head
  • Valve stem oil seals
  • Valves and seats lapped as necessary
  • Check all accessible hoses, pipes and belts, replace if necessary
  • Obviously new gaskets all round, as well as the HG
  • Inlet manifold sand blast and repaint as its a little shabby
Clearly it's an excellent opportunity to carry out additional, preventative maintenance. Do the mechanically minded on here have any suggestions for things that I should definitely add to my list?
  • Timing chains/tensioners/sprockets/guides? I have no rattling or anything that makes me think I should!
  • VANOS? I don’t have any symptoms of failing VANOS, but it would be a convenient time to change the seal.
  • Crank shaft sensor?
  • Cam sensor?
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

PhillV8S
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by PhillV8S » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:25 pm

Good luck, I hope your bravery rewards you. How hard can it be! Slow and steady wins the day IME.
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Charles
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by Charles » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:43 pm

Couple of suggestions:

Check the block and head for flatness and skim where necessary.

Consider changing bolts for studs as this helps locate the head and allows more even tightening of head

Follow the instructions on order and torque setting for tightening the head
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by simon13 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:50 am

I did a head rebuild on my old touring no.36 about 9 years ago

my tips would be the head gasket choice is correct, also the head bolts are shorter for a 328i so make sure you get the correct lenght head bolts for the S52 which are longer i think* The main difference on the S52 over the euro M52 is a cast iron block

Vanos i'd change the seals + shims, they are very reliable though

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=11544

not telling how to suck eggs but i recorded my trials and tribulations here when i had it, as there isn't much info online about these cars technically
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by Drew » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:15 pm

For the head work, the machine shop will check for true on the head, and will check for any damage also, and they'll give it a good clean. Stripping the head can be DIY, you just need a good valve spring compressor. Keep the parts for each valve labelled so they can go back on the same valve/cyl.
Once head is stripped you could also lap the valves yourself, just don't overdo it! And checking valve guide wear also, straight forward
I think the block is cast iron, yes? If so it's unlikely to be out of true, but worth checking if you have a good straight edge.

One thought is valve timing, with a skim it will retard the valve timing a bit. Not sure how sensitive to timing these lumps are?
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richb10touring
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:03 pm

simon13 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:50 am
not telling how to suck eggs but i recorded my trials and tribulations here when i had it, as there isn't much info online about these cars technically
What a thread! I'm only half way through as the Mrs is bleating at me.

Drew, I'm probably going to just hand the head over to the machine shop with valves and maybe even cams still fitted and let them crack it. No plan to skim it unless they say it's needed!

The info on head bolt length and the tip for studs is very useful too, thanks.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:59 pm

I've got the inlet manifold and associated gubbins off. This revealed a number of knackered vacuum and breather pipes which is to be expected, and should sort a couple of minor oil leaks out. The vacuum unit's moulded attachment bracket had snapped off and so it was flopping about and dripping oil down near the crankshaft locking hole. Hopefully I'll just fab up a bracket with some jubliee clips to save the expense of a new one, and this will probably be better than a new plastic bracket anyway! Air intake boot is also split, which is an Alpina specfic part, boo...

Next up is VANOS off, exhaust manifold off (going to leave it in situ), and then at last the head.

Planning on taking the head and camshafts out in a oner - anything wrong with that plan? It will be heavy I know but looks much easier to do camshafts on a bench.

Also got a snapped hose connection on this component - can anyone tell me what it is? It's normally hidden underneath the throttle body. I've not trawled RealOEM yet or simply taken it off to find a part number, but thought I'd ask in case someone knows.

Where do people get their Alpina parts from? Just a regular dealer? I'm planning on trying my local or failing that Cotswold, who I've found decent in the past. Might try Alloy Wheels Direct too as they clearly have a direct line to the factory for some parts already.
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2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by Bob » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 pm

Some good work there Rich. Alloy Wheels Direct have been great for me, had suspension and a few other ALPINA specific bits for the Touring from them ... including the air intake elbow which was only £100 :lol:
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by simon13 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:08 pm

mine was broken also, is it some sort of charcoal filter?
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richb10touring
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:05 am

simon13 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:08 pm
mine was broken also, is it some sort of charcoal filter?
Yep, found it on RealOEM. It's part of the system that allows the fuel tank to vent without emitting fuel vapour direct to atmosphere. It connects into the inlet so that excess vapours can be burnt off whilst driving. It's only the hose connection spigot that is broken so hoping I can rig up a smaller diameter tube to reconnect it.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by Henry » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:18 pm

I have that charcoal canister on the m3, that pipe should go to an electric valve which is cycled on/off by the ECU. Great thread btw. Best of luck.
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by nealpina » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:16 pm

I was meant to say congratulations when you purchased your car. Also welcome back to ALPINA ownership

However now and unfortunately, I need to say good luck with the headgasket repair
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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:07 pm

Cheers Nealpina!

Got the head off yesterday; break in the HG in exactly the "right" place between 5/6 (if you know what I mean...). Looked pretty manky to me with loads of evidence of oil leaks round the back of the block and gloopy old oil all over the headbolts as they came out. Haven't done a proper check or clean up of the block yet. I found getting the head off very tricky; it's heavy, its awkward to lift and very easy to mangle the chain guide at the front whilst lifting. I avoided that but just hope I haven't scratched the top of the block without realising. I had to take one of the exhaust manifolds off in the end as I couldn't wriggle it past the steering column, which entailed very awkward access to undo the 12 nuts holding it on.

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Head surface looks OK to the untrained eye, noting that it was still filthy at this point. Note the difference in colour of the exhaust valves between cylinders 1-4 (firing properly) and 5 & 6 (firing each other out of sync through the HG break).

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This scoring on an exhaust cam bearing face concerned me! Really don't fancy finding let alone buying new cams...

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Head and cams dropped off at my local engine builder today who will do the usual cleaning, checking and pressure testing. Hopefully all that will be needed is valve stem oil seals and valve/seat lapping. They think they can polish the scoring on the cams just enough to reduce the stress-raising effect without reducing overall diameter and thereby making them loose in their carrier.

I've not started buying parts yet - the engine builder is going to source the gaskets and seals for me from his own contacts which will save me a job. I've told him its a US M3 S52 gasket and that I need M50 spec head bolts, shorter than usual M52 etc etc.

I've loads of cleaning to do now in the engine bay and will turn my attention to getting the inlet manifold tarted up whilst waiting for the head and cams to be done.
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by richb10touring » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:46 pm

It’s been a long time since I posted an update here! Lots happened over the summer; new baby (number 3), new job, and so slow pace of work on the Alpina.

Since the last post I have:

• Got the head back; needed a very slight skim to remove some fretting, pressure tested OK, new valve stem oil seals, valve seats and valves all OK
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• Cleaned up the block very carefully and cleaned out the bolt holes
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• Refitted the head; very tricky as a heavy old lump, I chose to fit the exhaust manifolds onto it on the workbench so a bit of a wriggle to get it on.
• Timed it, fitted my VANOS which had been overhauled by Hack Engineering
• Inlet manifold blasted and powder coated, looks lovely now
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• Buttoned the whole thing back up
• And it started first time! I have video proof, although it sounded like a boat engine as I only had one exhaust manifold connected to its pipe at the time.
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I felt like an absolute legend clearly, but it was not to last…

The engine stalled when I tried to rev it after a few minutes, and to cut a long story short hasn’t started since.

I’ve checked all the usual things, I don’t have any fault codes (using a proper Peake reader), fuel good, spark good, etc. The problem is one of compression. The figures I have are confusing and all bad news! Here’s what I’ve got (in psi), from a test conducted with a few ml of oil squirted into the cylinders first to help the piston rings seal after having had a lot of unburnt fuel wash them out:

1: 0
2: 32
3: 0
4: 0
5: 80
6: 125

Before the HG change they were fine on 1-4 and down on 5 & 6 with the gasket gone between those cylinders. Testing tool is brand new and seems to measure cylinder 6 just fine – and I can tell that the zero readings are right, there’s no resistance to cranking at all with the tester or a spark plug in 1/3/4.

The timing looks bang on. I set it properly with the right tools, and if it was off then I think I’d get low across the board rather than one acceptable cylinder, 2 bad and 3 appalling. Same for VANOS installation, if I’d messed it up then surely all cylinders would be down a little?

I’ve checked the valves with a boroscope. Hard to see but nothing obviously bent and all appear to be closing fully. No piston damage. Some swarf visible on top of no 3 inlet valves, which is pretty poor from the machine shop, but I can’t see it reducing compression to zero.

The cam followers all look to be in the right place, and with the lobes off the followers it looks like the valves are all retracting as they should.

Head bolts haven’t obviously loosened, but this doesn’t mean they haven’t I guess.

I need to get a leakdown test, which would pin down where the loss of compression is coming from, but I don’t have the equipment and clearly the car is a non-mover!

Anyone got any ideas whilst I try and find a leak-down tester? There’s some very experienced E36 mechanics on here I know!

Have I just installed the HG really poorly? I find it hard to believe that this could cause zero compression – poor compression maybe, but none at all?

Could a bit of swarf – or some other machine shop error – cause this? Seems less likely given that they do this for a living and I’m an amateur!
2000 Alpina B10 3.3 Touring 26 - Sold 2008 and scrapped :cry:
2002 Alpina B3 3.3 Touring 113 - Sold 2011 and still going strong I believe :D
1999 Alpina B3 3.2 Convertible 77

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Re: E36 3.2 Headgasket DIY

Post by greenelekta » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:00 pm

No compression sounds like it might be stuck/bent valves.
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