C1 recreation yes or no

[bss325i]

Excellent news
I'll be watching with interest
If you happen to see a facelift E30 Alpina front lower spoiler do let me know as I have a fibreglass one but would prefer a real one

The real ones are also fibreglass and still available new.

Both A/C and non A/C types.

[ali]

Excellent news
I'll be watching with interest
If you happen to see a facelift E30 Alpina front lower spoiler do let me know as I have a fibreglass one but would prefer a real one

The real ones are also fibreglass and still available new.

Both A/C and non A/C types.

They are?
Mine is probably a real one then as it has an Alpina part number that I checked for the front valance
I thought it was just a replica and real ones were ABS plastic

[flybynite]

SO a bit of a resurrection, to talk technicalities. BSS325i has been hugely helpful but he is (thankfully) incredibly busy these days so I thought I would bother everyone else

Engines: I am trying to get to the bottom of what Alpina did to the 2.5 E30 M20B25 engines.

I know the early C2 2.5 were actually a 2.6 (2554cc) using the B23 crankshaft and block bored out to 84mm and these had to have used custom pistons.

The later C2 2.5 and then the C1 2.5 were based on the M20B25 325i engine using motronic, however I have a sneaky suspicion that they left the engine internals alone. It was just exhaust, cam, chip, throttle body, mild head flowing. Pistons, crank and head all standard. (the capacity is the same as the standard engine 2494cc) matching the earlier output of 190bhp

Trim I thought the seats that were in the car when I bought it in the 80s were from the E21. Turns out they are not, they are E30 Recaros but with the E21 broad stripe trim. I now see other E30 C1 2.3s had this trim. I still don't like it (which is one of the reasons I took them out) but at least I am sure they are the seats it should have. The trim is shot (other reason I took them out) What they get re-trimmed in I have not yet decided but the E30 thin pinstripe feels too modern for an old Henna Chromie.

My best guess is that sometime between '84 and '87 an Alpina C1 died and they used a 323i 'sport' to put all the bits on. By '88 it was Alpina'd and it is looking like whoever did it made a proper job of it too. I have tried to find out which car died but I don't think I will ever know for sure.

[Henry]

I have modified an E30 M3 and have received praise and criticism, probably more praise, but my advice would be to make sure it’s what YOU want to do to the car. Yes take advice listen to people’s opinion but in the end make it like you want and will be happy with.

[bss325i]

The later C2 2.5 and then the C1 2.5 were based on the M20B25 325i engine using motronic, however I have a sneaky suspicion that they left the engine internals alone. It was just exhaust, cam, chip, throttle body, mild head flowing. Pistons, crank and head all standard. (the capacity is the same as the standard engine 2494cc) matching the earlier output of 190bhp

Not as extravagant as that. Just a 268 degree camshaft, a chipped ECU and an exhaust. That is it.

The C1 2.5 engine was also used on the 1987 onward C2.5 (often badged as a C2 2.5) and the Sytner only 'Alpina Sport pack' which was the above spec engine upgrade on any 325i.

I once owned a highly optioned 325i convertible which had the 'Alpina sport pack' engine.

[flybynite]

The later C2 2.5 and then the C1 2.5 were based on the M20B25 325i engine using motronic, however I have a sneaky suspicion that they left the engine internals alone. It was just exhaust, cam, chip, throttle body, mild head flowing. Pistons, crank and head all standard. (the capacity is the same as the standard engine 2494cc) matching the earlier output of 190bhp

Not as extravagant as that. Just a 268 degree camshaft, a chipped ECU and an exhaust. That is it.

The C1 2.5 engine was also used on the 1987 onward C2.5 (often badged as a C2 2.5) and the Sytner only 'Alpina Sport pack' which was the above spec engine upgrade on any 325i.

I once owned a highly optioned 325i convertible which had the 'Alpina sport pack' engine.

Thanks Barry, that's cleared that up. It is the obvious way to go. The car was always done as a C1 2.3, but I have had enough of the piston slap and leaky vacuum pipe Jetronic.

It will be a high compression 325i engine along the lines of the C1 2.5 as good as we can possibly build it. Still in keeping but a lot more usable and reliable.

It will also save me hunting down pistons that don't exist

[flybynite]

Happy new year to all!

So, after spending a day of the festive period rummaging through various outbuildings looking for parts that look Alpina the parts I found I had left have thrown up some questions.

Seats, I had dismissed them as aftermarket or E21 Recaros, because they were in the early 'broad stripe' material which did not last well. But looking at them again they are E30 Recaro LS but in the E21 fabric. I see now that some early E30 C1 2.3 cars had the same fabric. I didn't like it then and I still don't so It won't be going back to that material but at least they seem genuine when I decide what to trim them.

Suspension: I remember it had Bilstein suspension when I took it off and replaced it with the (arguably) better Koni adjustable setup. It will be going back to Bilstein but after finding them I remember the Bilstein fronts had a raised, offset 'top hat' mount. I am thinking that these were to do camber/caster but also compensate for the lowered springs

Question is if I want to re-use them I should go with the longer Bilstein B6 inserts not the shorter B8 made for the lowering springs. I am guessing Bilstein did not do shorter inserts in 1984.

Finally brakes, The car had different brakes on the front which I am guessing were the Alpina bits based on the Mercedes brakes. In a fit of frustration at getting parts when one seized they were binned for standard items.

Just wondering about the viability of putting these brakes back on again but don't want to go to the bother of doing it to end up hunting for consumables again

[AG]

Alpina bits based on the Mercedes brakes

Never heard of that before, are you certain on that?

[simon13]

A C1 wouldn't of have the 296mm brakes I don't think. Not enough powers to warrant it!

Its true the alpina setup is robbed from merc. The calipers are off a W124 300E or the 190E Cosworth. They used the same caliper and pads. Discs are unique to E30 and expensive. you can machine discs from other cars like crysler voyager or some others which escape my memory. The caliper carrier is also bespoke to the E30 and made for alpina.

[flybynite]

Discs are unique to E30 and expensive. you can machine discs from other cars like crysler voyager or some others which escape my memory. The caliper carrier is also bespoke to the E30 and made for alpina.

Cheers Simon, decision made, standard brakes!

A C1 wouldn't of have the 296mm brakes I don't think. Not enough powers to warrant it!

Yes I agree , but it did have different brakes that were tight for smaller wheels and I couldn't easily find replacements for, the Merc/Alpina ones were my best guess.

The thing that has crossed my mind is the bits may not have come from a broken C1 2.3, the other car at the time was the B6 2.8 and there were many more of them, more likely to have big brakes, vent gauge etc and more likely to have been bent round a tree

Nothing I can see that says these bits did not come from a LHD car so that could well have been the source.

[bss325i]

Alpjna big brakes on the E30 were optional (but rare) on the lesser M20 engined models and standard on the M30 big six models so B6 2.8 and B6 3.5.

Same with long range tank and vent gauge.

[flybynite]

Cheers Barry, font of knowledge as ever! Starting to make sense now. where all the bits on this car came from.

Same with long range tank and vent gauge.

That would explain why it had the second tank in the boot then. Came out when I started to get fumes in the car and needed boot space but I still have it bar some of the perished rubber bits. Few more parts to find then.

[flybynite]

I remember the Bilstein fronts had a raised, offset 'top hat' mount. I am thinking that these were to do camber/caster but also compensate for the lowered springs

Just looked at them again and it was probably the Xmas hangover, ignore everything after "I Remember" because I obviously don't.

Obviously stuffed them on the old strut upside down to store them, they are standard height but Alpina offset so Bilstein B8 fronts good to go

[flybynite]

Well I happened to find an article about the early E30 C1s from that time while doing some overdue sorting out of old car magazines I have hoarded over the years. It led me through some other random chances to be able to contact the original owner of this car of mine.

Understandably cautious about a message from the blue he was more than happy to talk about the car when he knew I was only the third owner and had it so long. He was able to answer the questions I have had for over 30 years about the car.

In 1983 he had just landed his first proper job in the city and like all ‘yuppies’ a 3 series had become one of the cars to have.

His father was a very good customer of Park Lane BMW (even by their standards) and another relative had an E21 Alpina which he always liked. As a reward for landing the job his father organised getting him the 3 series he knew his son wanted.

This seems to pre-date the first E30 Alpina arriving with Sytner and he says his father maintained Park Lane had thoughts about becoming the UK Alpina concessionaire so his father asked (as in, told) Park Lane to build a specific 'Alpina' E30 for his son,.

He could not easily insure a ‘modified’ engine (and his father was not overly keen on that either) so they waited for the new high-power (150bhp) 323i they were told was coming and got hold of one of the first, added the parts but left the engine standard. (From what I understand the engine could only have been done in Germany at that time anyway)

From the conversations I have had and the spec from the chassis number, the car had quite a few bits fitted between factory and registration, including:

LSD
Sport (dogleg) Gearbox
Bilstein suspension (never checked the size of ARBs)
Larger front brakes (never checked what master cylinder it had)
Recaro seats in Alpina ‘broad stripe’ cloth and matching rear seat.
Alpina Steering wheel
Alpina Gear knob
Vent Gauge
Alpina front spoiler
Alpina rear spoiler
Alpina wheels with spare
Long range tank in the boot

In early 1984 the car was done and that is the way it eventually came to me.

It is still a mystery where the car was done and where the parts were sourced but Park Lane did sell Alpinas for export and they were known for doing bespoke cars in-house either under the Park Lane showroom or at their Brentford location.

He drove it for a few years and came to the conclusion, (like many of us) that modifying the engine on an ‘old’ car (as he had originally planned) is more hassle than buying a better car so he sold the 323i and bought a 944 Turbo. Then, like all good yuppies, bought a 911!. He never recovered from this and still drives a Porsche today!

Does it make it a ‘proper’ Alpina? Probably not, does it matter, not really, I have had this car so long it is a bit irrelevant to me now and I find this bit of the car’s history more fascinating than anything on a list at Sytner. I can never see me ever selling this and I have been made to promise the original owner first refusal should I ever get the urge.

It does explain why the car had this particular set of so many professionally-fitted Alpina bits early on in its life, why it has a standard engine and why Sytner say they have never heard of the car, which has always made me wonder.

I found it quite interesting and thought some on here may do so too.

[Bob]

That’s a really interesting history you’ve managed to uncover, glad you’ve got to the bottom of how it came to be the way it is.