E46 B3 Touring - Gearbox Woes....

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thegrouch
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E46 B3 Touring - Gearbox Woes....

Post by thegrouch » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:38 pm

Hi all

I'm looking for some guidance and advice on the possible causes of my gearbox woes. Performance has been sluggish for a while but Vines in Redhill couldn't spot anything obvious when I last had it serviced. Last Saturday the following happened, after being sat in traffic at lights, when I left I tried to accelerate but the revs climbed happily but virtually no acceleration and the water temperature gauge climbed rapidly in to the red zone. I changed the gearbox to manual and managed to park up to let the car cool down, then drove home from where the car has not moved since.

Would like some advice on possible causes and best option to take the car (tow it?), I was thinking maybe Munich Legends as think they're more likely to resolve the issues than Vines. I'm based in Morden Surrey if taht helps for local garage options.

Thanks in advance

Matthew
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Charles
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Post by Charles » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:40 pm

Sorry to hear this.

Let's see what I can do from my experiences of gearbox failure and (separately) overheating.

First thing to say is that, unless you are moving the car a couple of miles, then you will need to arrange to get your car on the back of a truck. Otherwise you are likely to cause further damage to the gearbox.

I am trying to reconcile the failure of the box AND the coolant temperature rise, so please forgive me if I write down my chain of thought for you to consider:

If the gearbox oil gets too hot then the viscosity goes and the TC cannot transfer the twisting motion in the oil to turn the gearbox. Typically this will throw up a gearbox warning light and the box goes into safe mode, allowing you only 4th gear and an experience of a slipping clutch when moving away. Did you get a warning light? This is typically an orange cog symbol that appears next to the gear letter/number on the RHS of the dash.

For the gearbox oil to overheat, one of two things will have happened. Either the oil pump has failed or the intercooler is blocked or not functioning properly. If the pump has failed then there is no oil pressure in the box and no manner of revving the engine will allow the box to drive the car. I thought this might be the case but am confused about how you managed to engage manual and drive the car to the side of the road (and afterwards to get it home). Unless manual mode allows direct drive through the box and, after cooling down, the pump started working again - albeit on its last legs. Additionally, with no oil circulation in the gearbox, the intercooler has nothing to do and so there shouldn't be an impact on coolant temperature.

The intercooler is a simple device located at the base of the radiator and enables the gearbox oil to be cooled by the water coolant system. If this is blocked on the gearbox side then there should be no impact on coolant temperatures, simply causing an overheating gearbox. However, if the blockage is on the coolant side, then this will result in the same overheating gearbox AND cause the coolant temperatures to rise as the coolant isn't able to circulate correctly. This might well be the case.

The connection between the intercooler and the radiator is a small pair of "push-in" connectors at the bottom RHS of the radiator (if looked at from the front of the radiator. The channeling is easily susceptible to blockage and if some gunk has worked its way through the system then it may well have lodged here.

My gut feeling is that the intercooler (and/or the channels to and from it) has been getting blocked on the coolant side for a while, causing the gearbox temperatures to rise (but not to a critical point) - hence the sluggish performance from the box. When you stopped at the lights, this was the last straw, with minimal cooling of the box causing further overheating of the oil to the point where it stopped functioning as it should. At the same time, the intercooler/channels finally blocked completely, causing the coolant temperature rise.

I hope that this offers you something to think about but, unless you are confident about flushing through the coolant system, then this is something that a mechanic (dealer or indie) should be able to work through systematically for you.
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thegrouch
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Post by thegrouch » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:41 pm

Hi Charles

thanks for the potential solution/problem, my mechanical nous is minimal so will take it to my local garage to get checked out & hope I haven't knackered anything major in the meantime!!

Thanks

Matthew
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Post by Charles » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:13 am

I'm not convinced that I have identified the culprit - merely offered some thoughts based on what you have described.

I am still thrown by the (coincidental) timing of the gearbox not "working" and the coolant temperature rising. Apart from the intercooler, there is no logical or mechanical link between the two ...

Fault codes will tell you more but then you need someone you trust who can work through the symptoms logically.

Bon chance!
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Post by bmw virgin » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:06 pm

Not wishing to hijack this thread but I may have a similar problem?!

On the whole the gearbox on my July 2004 B3s (59,000mls) seems to work fine but if I "floor it" from standstill, it seems to free wheel & the car doesn't take off as expected.

There seems to be a 1-2 secs delay before the car starts to move and another 1-2 more secs before the car takes off properly.

Is this normal for the switchtronic box?

Thanks in advance!
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Post by simon13 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:32 pm

incorrect oil level in the box can cause a number of strange faults. The box doesn't need to have an oil leak for the level to be low either!
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B3 gearbox woes

Post by Kentish man » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:46 pm

Right .I have a question.How do you check the switchtronic box's oil level. I paid a certain local to change my gearbox oil over a year ago.Last month i took it somewhere different and asked them to chack it.They said it's sealed for life and doesn't need changing.I know this is wrong cos I've read the posts on here,so....... how please?

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Re: B3 gearbox woes

Post by Charles » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:50 pm

Kentish man wrote:Right .I have a question.How do you check the switchtronic box's oil level. I paid a certain local to change my gearbox oil over a year ago.Last month i took it somewhere different and asked them to chack it.They said it's sealed for life and doesn't need changing.I know this is wrong cos I've read the posts on here,so....... how please?
"Sealed for life" means that BMW don't feel it is necessary to change the oil.

However, this doesn't stop you, the owner, from deciding to check/change the oil whenever you like.

I now operate on a maximum of 50-60k miles before changing the gearbox oil and I certainly notice the difference when I do.

As for checking the level, I am not clear enough about the exact procedure but I'm sure Simon will be back to complete the details ...
bmw virgin wrote:On the whole the gearbox on my July 2004 B3s (59,000mls) seems to work fine but if I "floor it" from standstill, it seems to free wheel & the car doesn't take off as expected.

There seems to be a 1-2 secs delay before the car starts to move and another 1-2 more secs before the car takes off properly.

Is this normal for the switchtronic box?
My gearbox ran fine until 190k miles when it had a full refurbishment including overhaul of the valve box and replacement of the friction surfaces.

What you describe is certainly not "normal" and Simon may well be right when he mentions low oil levels in the box.

Other possible problems could be low viscosity (caused by overly hot oil), a slipping Torque Convertor or problematic solenoids/valves in the vale box.

Fault codes and running dagnostics will identify/eliminate possibilities - hence this was one of the reasons why I asked recently if anyone could check the normal operating temperature of the B3/B3S auto box, as this is an extremely useful point of reference.
Last edited by Charles on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rcshott » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:48 pm

EXCELLENT 'thoughts' on Tuesday, Charles, and a good read. I've still not advanced to the 'modern' Alpina just yet, but I worry about "sealed for life" when these sophisticated engines are built for using in more 'extreme' conditions than the average. I question "life"? BMW & Alpina don't actually specify, do they? Is it the car's life expectancy, fluid life expectancy, owners life…WHAT? I mean…such engines/boxes driven normally should be good for 350,000+ miles shouldn't they? But what of the actual fluid??? Extreme heating and cold conditions MUST have an effect, surely?

As pointed out, change the fluid/oil at sensible times and totally disregard "life" which I regard as misleading. Replacement of fluids, it should be said, MUST be to manufacturer specs…replacement with another brand/type/viscosity will give them (the engine manufacturer) an "out" at a time of any possible claim for compensation.

I fail to see their point, actually, to claim "...she'll be right, mate, it's sealed for life" and as Charles points out… a difference CAN be felt when replaced…a noteworthy point in itself. I would think oil producers do NOT agree with "life" either.

I understand none of this may directly help answer "the grouch's" question, but I consider the use of the word "life" in this context can be a very loose term for a quite complex and important matter.
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Post by simon13 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:08 pm

To check the oil the car needs to be plugged into some form of diagnostics.

Its needs to be on a ramp or pit but level, with the engine running and the gearbox in N or P. Heres the fun bit, the oil needs to be running out of the refil plug at the back of the box. The oil has to be between 30-50 degrees - doesn't sound much but it doesn't even take 5 mins for the oil to get past this temperature!

I got the level correct on my box as i was getting 3-4 fault codes (TC slip, valve body 1 and 2 plus more codes i can't remember at the time) it was clunky on gear changes and generally not very smooth and the car felt like a 318i in terms of power.

This cured all of that but confirmed my torque converter was kaput.

I'd try this first myself, log the codes, clear them and drive and see how it is. If its still bad repost, check the fault codes if there are any and go from there.

Darren MK on here whos selling his B3s touring had his valve body repaired and it cured alot of odd faults he was having.
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B3 gearbox woes

Post by Kentish man » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:19 pm

Thanks guys.I'll try and sort it with another garage!

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Post by Tonberry » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:13 am

Rather than start a new thread, I'll post my ramblings here.

14 year old B3. 135k miles on it and never seen an ATF or filter change.

Rather than do so now and have it make little to no difference, I'm looking at a gearbox rebuild when it finally goes.

Is the torque converter the only item that needs replacing all does it require a full overhaul?

Anyone with experience care to comment?

£400 TC +
£1000 rebuild would be nice

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Post by Charles » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:42 am

Tonberry wrote:Anyone with experience care to comment?
I first changed my gearbox oil at 120k miles and the difference was enormous. Since then, I have changed the oil every 60k miles or so (I am now on 244k miles!!!!)

At 190k miles the gearbox finally decided it needed some TLC and I had it overhauled. This involved three principle things:
- overhaul of valve box
- replacement of TC
- replacement of all friction surfaces

The approximate cost for this was in the region of £1500
Charles
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B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
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