E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Got a question about your ALPINA ask it here !
You've got the car now you need to know something, techincal advice, specific questions etc.

Moderators: Charles, neil, D4

Post Reply
User avatar
Charles
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:44 am
Location: Oxford

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by Charles » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:39 am

As mentioned privately to you yesterday but added here for general debate, I can't help wondering whether all the front end engine issues - misfires etc - are linked to bad signals coming from the lambda sensors.

A problem with the lambdas will force the EMU to adjust fuelling etc to correct the exhaust gas output which, if the lambda signal is wrong in the first place, will push the adjustments at the front end further the wrong way - if you catch my drift. Basically it is a feedback loop which, if driven by erroneous signals at the lambdas will throw the rest of the system out.
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order ;)
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!

hashluck
ALPI
ALPI
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Berks/Oxon
Contact:

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by hashluck » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:57 pm

Charles wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:39 am
As mentioned privately to you yesterday but added here for general debate, I can't help wondering whether all the front end engine issues - misfires etc - are linked to bad signals coming from the lambda sensors.

A problem with the lambdas will force the EMU to adjust fuelling etc to correct the exhaust gas output which, if the lambda signal is wrong in the first place, will push the adjustments at the front end further the wrong way - if you catch my drift. Basically it is a feedback loop which, if driven by erroneous signals at the lambdas will throw the rest of the system out.
That is where my money lies Charles

rc944
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:21 pm
Location: London / Bucks

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by rc944 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:28 pm

ive never across several e39 and e46 cars and many miles between them had a lambda sensor fail
i have however had rough running issues arising from cam sensors, split air intake boots, duff spark plugs, ccv, head gaskets and so on
Porsche 997.1 GT3 CS I Alpina E46 B3s Coupe I Alpina E46 B3 3.3 Touring I Ducati 749S Mono I Ducati 748R I Ducati 749 Track Bike I Ducati 916S

DogWagen
ALP
ALP
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:18 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by DogWagen » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:57 pm

For what it's worth, my B3s starts rough and then smooths out very quickly. I do get the occasional lean code which may be a sensor on the way out but am more thinking that it's a vacuum/air issue which is more likely on an older car. I did find that the exhaust vacuum pipes were not re-connected after one gearbox visit. There's one for the tailpipe valve at the back of the rear silencer and the other is on the LHS by the crossmember (leads to the vacuum tank). Worth a check.

It's probably worth getting B&M (in Yoker...? - if so, they did my pre-buy inspection in 2016) to do a smoke test which should identify if there are any issues with air/vacuum leaks before you fire the parts cannon again.

My gearbox is smooth after rebuild, now that I've done a fair few miles with a very slight change in note at low speeds in 4th/5th when the converter locks (roughly 40 mph and 1400 rpm).

Any help?

hashluck
ALPI
ALPI
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Berks/Oxon
Contact:

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by hashluck » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:32 pm

DogWagen wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:57 pm
For what it's worth, my B3s starts rough and then smooths out very quickly. I do get the occasional lean code which may be a sensor on the way out but am more thinking that it's a vacuum/air issue which is more likely on an older car. I did find that the exhaust vacuum pipes were not re-connected after one gearbox visit. There's one for the tailpipe valve at the back of the rear silencer and the other is on the LHS by the crossmember (leads to the vacuum tank). Worth a check.

It's probably worth getting B&M (in Yoker...? - if so, they did my pre-buy inspection in 2016) to do a smoke test which should identify if there are any issues with air/vacuum leaks before you fire the parts cannon again.

My gearbox is smooth after rebuild, now that I've done a fair few miles with a very slight change in note at low speeds in 4th/5th when the converter locks (roughly 40 mph and 1400 rpm).

Any help?
Great advice - I did have a lean code which was a sensor (but I did suspect a vacuum leak)

User avatar
Charles
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8061
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:44 am
Location: Oxford

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by Charles » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:43 pm

rc944 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:28 pm
ive never across several e39 and e46 cars and many miles between them had a lambda sensor fail
i have however had rough running issues arising from cam sensors, split air intake boots, duff spark plugs, ccv, head gaskets and so on
I have and it caused all sorts of issues upstream - hence my suggestion. Replacing them is very easy (with a lift ramp) and not too costly. Of course, it depends on what the codes are telling you
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order ;)
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!

E46330
AL
AL
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:34 am

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by E46330 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:25 am

Small update here and apologies I’ve been away and inactive for a while was away for 2 weeks and back in Scotland now.

I’ve dropped the car to B&M Centre in Glasgow to sort out the misfiring and engine choking issues. I took the car back to the gearbox place and the engine is misbehaving so bad it will be hard to do any real road tests and such so they suggested I get that addressed first and I can bring it back whenever without the need for an appointment due to the circumstance.

Fingers crossed it’s on the road to perfection now , it shall be going straight from one garage to another and most likely do a couple hundred mile run in it then tuck her away for the winter.

(If it’s something as simple as the fuel filter I’ll be laughing ! I really hope it is at this stage haha)
(Current)
E46 Alpina B3 3.3 Saloon
(Previous)
E46 330i Individual Midnight Blue (write-off)
E46 330ci (sold) x 2
E46 330i (sold) x 4

Bob
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 5517
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:37 pm

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by Bob » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:04 am

E46330 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:25 am
I’ve dropped the car to B&M Centre in Glasgow
Looks like you’ve been spotted
Attachments
C0AD7542-48F6-4E7A-87A8-696BDA71C653.jpeg
C0AD7542-48F6-4E7A-87A8-696BDA71C653.jpeg (540.7 KiB) Viewed 1217 times
B3 3.2 TOURING #062

E46330
AL
AL
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:34 am

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by E46330 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:21 am

Oh wow that’s crazy; what a small world ! And that is exactly what I told them maybe even verbatim haha. Must have been the other lovely chap in the shop when I was there.

Please don’t judge my ALPIN badge , she will become an Alpina again. Last car wash made it go missing and a new one has been ordered and on the way ! :oops: :oops: :oops:
(Current)
E46 Alpina B3 3.3 Saloon
(Previous)
E46 330i Individual Midnight Blue (write-off)
E46 330ci (sold) x 2
E46 330i (sold) x 4

ali
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 2401
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:40 am
Location: Edinburgh

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by ali » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:39 am

I had my E46 B3 box rebuilt by mackies 9 years ago costing £2100 then and has been great ever since.
A very similar box in my Range Rover was rebuilt by them about 4 years ago and cost me £2700 and has been perfect
My warranty was 3 year 10k miles Maybe your 100k mile warranty was a typo?
B3 3.3 Coupe #090
D3 2.0 Biturbo Touring #098

E46330
AL
AL
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:34 am

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by E46330 » Sat May 14, 2022 12:30 pm

ali wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:39 am
I had my E46 B3 box rebuilt by mackies 9 years ago costing £2100 then and has been great ever since.
A very similar box in my Range Rover was rebuilt by them about 4 years ago and cost me £2700 and has been perfect
My warranty was 3 year 10k miles Maybe your 100k mile warranty was a typo?
Apologies for the late reply.
Car was out of commission for the winter and only had the car back on the road the last few weeks , I was going though some personal issues recently that’s why I’ve not been active in these forums.

The gearbox seems okay now that it’s settled a little , a bit rough from 2nd to 3rd gear on a cold start but once the engine is warm it’s smooth as you like. The rpm doesn’t jump around anymore when cruising at high speed either so seems like the TC is okay , will monitor this over the next few weeks. I’ve checked the paperwork and it’s 3 years or 100k warranty whichever comes first.

I’ve also had my front shock absorbers replaced in the meantime. I decided to go OEM Alpina , I didn’t think anything else would suffice. They were £865 including VAT from FMW-Tuning. Paid £720 first then got a letter from FedEx saying I owe 20% VAT. What a lovely surprise.

I’m still experiencing a rough start up when cold , for about 20 seconds the engine jumps up and down in rpm until it settles and is fine. It is almost as if it is trying to find the right mix of petrol and air. I’ve had a 2 more hoses replaced as they were cracked and leaking , this actually made the running worse for a while until it sort of settled again. Other than that car is running beautifully.
(Current)
E46 Alpina B3 3.3 Saloon
(Previous)
E46 330i Individual Midnight Blue (write-off)
E46 330ci (sold) x 2
E46 330i (sold) x 4

simon13
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3385
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Camberley, Surrey

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by simon13 » Sat May 14, 2022 8:48 pm

Sounds like the air pump possibly on cold start, mine does similar
Image

E46330
AL
AL
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:34 am

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by E46330 » Sat May 14, 2022 9:50 pm

simon13 wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:48 pm
Sounds like the air pump possibly on cold start, mine does similar
Would that be the secondary air pump ?
(Current)
E46 Alpina B3 3.3 Saloon
(Previous)
E46 330i Individual Midnight Blue (write-off)
E46 330ci (sold) x 2
E46 330i (sold) x 4

simon13
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3385
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Camberley, Surrey

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by simon13 » Sat May 14, 2022 11:06 pm

theres only 1 air pump i think. Its only activates from cold and pumps air into the Cats until they are warm
Image

hashluck
ALPI
ALPI
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Berks/Oxon
Contact:

Re: E46 B3 Saloon 2002 Torque Converter and Steering Wheel Judder

Post by hashluck » Sun May 15, 2022 12:35 pm

Pretty normal behaviour for E46 B3 cold start up? Just let it do its thing for 20-30 seconds. Warms up quickly

Post Reply