B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

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John Ness
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B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by John Ness » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:01 pm

Just fitted brand new lower suspension arms both sides, £1200 cost. Brembo brakes on this model, 8mm pad depth left. New discs 27,000 miles ago. Still a judder, not as bad and manageable.
Anyone been through this ? as front discs now at £1800 parts only is a cost I would only want to bear if this was the last thing to check particularly as they lock fine. Has anyone had discs machined ?
On the upside I love the car, 1075757 miles total but smooth and a fantastic drive, on a run I can still get 30mpg and it still can rocket when you floor it for those precious seconds before it hits the speed limit !
Anyone used CPC Alpina Specialists in Amersham or Forza near Bristol ?
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:24 am

John Ness wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:01 pm
Just fitted brand new lower suspension arms both sides, £1200 cost. Brembo brakes on this model, 8mm pad depth left. New discs 27,000 miles ago. Still a judder, not as bad and manageable.
Anyone been through this ? as front discs now at £1800 parts only is a cost I would only want to bear if this was the last thing to check particularly as they lock fine. Has anyone had discs machined ?
On the upside I love the car, 1075757 miles total but smooth and a fantastic drive, on a run I can still get 30mpg and it still can rocket when you floor it for those precious seconds before it hits the speed limit !
Anyone used CPC Alpina Specialists in Amersham or Forza near Bristol ?
Jmn
John, I have just had my brakes done all round new discs and pads a couple of months ago. I was getting front brake judder before and although the discs still had reasonable thickness left it was obviously the problem and all sorted now. Mileage is 82,600 but I have no invoice history to show that they had been replaced before. I was thinking that they may have been original as I was expecting the mileage to be good considering the cost. I purchased the front discs and pads through Alloy Wheels Direct and they were excellent to deal with and good on price. I would have thought that they would have been better than 27,000 miles. There is always the option of getting the discs resurfaced on the car if there is still plenty of thickness. Some BMW and Porsche dealers have the equipment. This method adjusts for any runout on the disc mounting that could cause judder or slight warping. I thought about this but it would have been marginal for me. You would think discs at this cost would be would be quite resistant to warping in normal UK use not really slowing the car from very high speeds.

Reading the current news, purchasing from Europe looks to have got a lot more expensive. I am glad I did mine last year.
John
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by Metrics » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:22 pm

From what I've read E39 judders and shimmy are quite common and whole heap of things can be the culprit. CPC have a great reputation for Alpina work as do BMR in Sussex. Another option is Redish in Bristol. All these garages have great experience with these cars and would be able to advise you on what's causing the issue.

Discs on these as we know are very costly, so really make sure they are the cause before shelling out and a specialist will be able to confirm for sure. If you do then definitely use Alloy Wheels Direct, they saved me a huge amount on the discs and pads last year.

A couple of other thoughts on this. Check the inner face of the disc. Outers often look fine and inners often hide a whole world of pain!
Secondly calipers - the Brembo 4 pots are now of the age/milege where they'll likely need a rebuild. They are prone to caliper plate corrosion, corrosion on the pistons and seals that are hard and brittle. This will also cause symptoms like you are experiencing.

For your suspension work, what did you have changed? Out of interest how much of the £1200 was parts?
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by BarryM » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:54 pm

John Ness wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:01 pm
1075757 miles
Over a million miles, no wonder it judders a bit :)

As Asim mentions this is likely an E39 thing so if you've checked all the usual front end possibilities as best you can then maybe get one of the specialists to give it a once over as it can be quite hard to pin this sort of thing down.
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:26 pm

I agree with Asim and Barry as I remember some years ago having the shimmy problem on a previous e39 and getting the discs and pads changed, at the dealership, didn't really change it. Then had some suspension bushes replaced which helped but didn't get rid of it completely. As it had been improved I sort of put up with it until trading it in. I forgot about that being a particular e39 issue so best go through the steps suggested before further expense.
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:29 pm

Also meant to say that the feeling in the steering this time with the V8S was different from my previous experience of the shimmy, that I was more confident it was the brakes.
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by Drew » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:18 pm

Happy to recommend CPC. Phil knows his stuff and looked after my V8S in the day. I never suffered the dreaded E39 vibration, does it only happen under braking? I did look for cheaper disc options for my car (I didn't find any, even direct from Brembo), but bought a pair from Cotswolds, with a hefty discount applied (sympathy perhaps!?) the previous discs did over 100k IIRC and were below minimum thickness when I changed them.

Think they can also be sensitive to wheel bolt torque, can anyone confirm?

Where in south bucks are you, I'm in beaconsfield

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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by Charles » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:21 pm

Drew wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:18 pm
Happy to recommend CPC. Phil knows his stuff ...
+1

Been using them for over 10 years and always happy with their work
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:30 pm

Drew wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:18 pm
Happy to recommend CPC. Phil knows his stuff and looked after my V8S in the day. I never suffered the dreaded E39 vibration, does it only happen under braking? I did look for cheaper disc options for my car (I didn't find any, even direct from Brembo), but bought a pair from Cotswolds, with a hefty discount applied (sympathy perhaps!?) the previous discs did over 100k IIRC and were below minimum thickness when I changed them.

Think they can also be sensitive to wheel bolt torque, can anyone confirm?

Where in south bucks are you, I'm in beaconsfield

Cheers
Getting 100k out of original discs is something and that is why I thought mines were original at 82k. I tried the wheel bolt torque correction and stripping and cleaning but made no difference. The feeling I had with my previous e39 experience was the dreaded e39 shimmy where it felt like a slight steering pull in both directions as soon as you started to brake and worsened the harder you braked. The feeling this time was more like a vibration that you might get with a warped disc. If this makes any sense. But I agree get someone who has experience working on this issue before committing to expense you might not have to. If it is the e39 shimmy, doing the brakes might not fix it, as I found out some years ago.
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by John Ness » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:51 pm

This is all really helpful and many thanks for your shared experience. CPC have done an analysis and found some movement in the front end suggesting it is not a disc problem, waiting on parts now but no big deal.
Of the previous £1200 bill, £800+ was parts, the old maybe serviceable parts are now on Ebay.
Whilst on the Alpina sat nav sometimes takes 20 miles before it kicks in and CD stacker 50% of the time says “no disc “
Fault monitor on dash says “check brake lights” probably 6 times a week but they are fine, but none of this takes the joy of driving an Alpina away. And finally the mileage at 1 million plus was an error, it’s actually 10 million !!
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:30 pm

John Ness wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:51 pm
This is all really helpful and many thanks for your shared experience. CPC have done an analysis and found some movement in the front end suggesting it is not a disc problem, waiting on parts now but no big deal.
Of the previous £1200 bill, £800+ was parts, the old maybe serviceable parts are now on Ebay.
Whilst on the Alpina sat nav sometimes takes 20 miles before it kicks in and CD stacker 50% of the time says “no disc “
Fault monitor on dash says “check brake lights” probably 6 times a week but they are fine, but none of this takes the joy of driving an Alpina away. And finally the mileage at 1 million plus was an error, it’s actually 10 million !!
I have to admit that I did have a concern that after spending a fair bit on the brakes that the car would still have the dreaded e39 issue which I have experience of in a previous e39 but gladly it's ok. Hopefully CPC will sort yours it.

Never had an issue with Sat Nav not starting up but the CD stacker "no disc" problem is common. I had a go at fixing mine a few weeks ago and managed to get it to recognise discs 1 & 2, took it out again to have another go and now it doesn't recognise any discs. Finding another solution or purchasing a working one off eBay appears an easier route.

I had a similar issue with a previous e39 showing intermittent "check brake light". It was always the high level one top of rear screen and after many bulb replacements traced it to some some verdigris build up on the contacts that must have been causing additional resistance resulting in the alert. Cleaned it up with some contact cleaner and problem never came back.

Hope this helps.
John
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by Charles » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:00 pm

Bit late to the party on this one but hope this helps

I had an ongoing issue with front brake judder on my B3S which, when inspected, showed no obvious signs of bush wear, so we went down the route of skimming the discs, rebuilding the calipers and checking tracking and wheel balances - but no improvement, which had everyone at CPC scratching their heads!

With no other obvious options, I brought forward a planned mod - to fit offset Z4M trailing arm bushes which sharpen up steering response and reduce bush wear - even though there was still no obvious bush wear. in the existing ones. At the same time, we replaced both front wishbones which effectively replaced all the front end bushing related to braking. Throw in some tracking adjustments to accommodate the offset bushes and the judder disappeared.

As a scientist, we had made two changes so couldn't be precisely sure which bushes were causing the problem - very annoying!
As a driver, suddenly everything was alright with the world - very pleasing!
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by BarryM » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:16 pm

JASV8S wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:30 pm
I had a similar issue with a previous e39 showing intermittent "check brake light". It was always the high level one top of rear screen and after many bulb replacements traced it to some some verdigris build up on the contacts that must have been causing additional resistance resulting in the alert. Cleaned it up with some contact cleaner and problem never came back
Very good point on the check brake lights John, that bulb holder under the rear shelf (accessible from the boot) is a really cheap nasty bit of work - when you look at the contacts to the bulb they are just too flimsy. I bought a new one on the basis it was pretty cheap and being new might help and it did seem to - this was after quite a few attempts to re-bend the metal contacts to make an improved contact!
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by JASV8S » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:46 pm

BarryM wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:16 pm
JASV8S wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:30 pm
I had a similar issue with a previous e39 showing intermittent "check brake light". It was always the high level one top of rear screen and after many bulb replacements traced it to some some verdigris build up on the contacts that must have been causing additional resistance resulting in the alert. Cleaned it up with some contact cleaner and problem never came back
Very good point on the check brake lights John, that bulb holder under the rear shelf (accessible from the boot) is a really cheap nasty bit of work - when you look at the contacts to the bulb they are just too flimsy. I bought a new one on the basis it was pretty cheap and being new might help and it did seem to - this was after quite a few attempts to re-bend the metal contacts to make an improved contact!
You are right about the quality Barry, as I remember thinking at the time it looked like something they had picked out of an old parts bin from the 1960/70's hoping no one would notice as it's hidden away!
John
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Re: B10 4.8 S Brake Judder

Post by rc944 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:13 pm

did you get this sorted? brake reaction/lollipop bushes?
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