Clutch Judder Experiences and Latest Information

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ade and liz flint
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Post by ade and liz flint » Thu May 10, 2012 1:21 pm

chrisbin wrote:Next time I will definitely be back in an auto...
It's a distinct possibility here, too, for a number of reasons. The judder being one of them...and that new 8speed is pretty impressive and less 'auto-like' than we feared :P

Going back to the 'software fix' crap, I think that palliative effort proved BMW have very few proper engineers involved in their car design and manufacture, now. It's one of the most disappointing aspects of the whole saga for me, along with the constant denial that there was anything inherantly wrong with the DMF assemblies they were using.
Current:
23MY Porsche Macan GTS in Papaya
23MY Cupra Born V3 77kW in Aurora

Previously loved:
ALPINA: E91 B3SBiturbo #127, E92 B3SBiturbo #285, E90 D3Biturbo #097, E85 Roadster S #168 & variety of 'beige' 4 and 6-cyl BMW lumps.
PORSCHE: Macan S, Cayman 981 S, Cayman 981 GTS

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IAM Joe
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Post by IAM Joe » Thu May 10, 2012 1:49 pm

Some good discussion and nice to hear from others in the same boat.

As I stated previously, it only happens infrequently (possibly due to the fact I live in a flat part of the world) but is annoying and as Ade experienced, possibly dangerous if at a critical point when you needed to get a shift on.

I wanted to clear up the revised clutch assembly so those who have the N47 engine are aware of it and those with the M47 don't get their hopes up that a permanent fix was available (like me). I'd not found any information elsewhere which stated this.

I've never previously owned an automatic but would seriously consider one next time around :roll:
Joe

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ade and liz flint
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Post by ade and liz flint » Thu May 10, 2012 2:03 pm

IAM Joe wrote:I wanted to clear up the revised clutch assembly so those who have the N47 engine are aware of it and those with the M47 don't get their hopes up that a permanent fix was available (like me).
I'm not 100% convinced that the N47 DMF revision is a total, longterm 'fix' yet. Right, remembering my background (dynamics for those that aren't already bored stiff by it being repeated) and having asked HQ what the improvement to the assembly is, I received the reply 'changed damping'. I'm not quite comfortable with that as I can perceive very few ways in which the damping can be adjusted (basically changing the spring stiffness is the main one which has other side-effects in itself) BUT changing the damping suggests to me that the problem is essentially still there and they are trying to mask it by smothering the response as opposed to removing the prime reason for the cause - probably, and most likely, some alignment flexibility as I mentioned earlier.

The mask may yet slip, as Chrisbin's X1-driving mate is possibly noting.

Now, what I'd like to know is how the auto-box compensates for and controls the vibration harmonics from the engine without having any perceived juddering or harshness in the cabin and drivetrain ie, what replicates the DMF in an auto-box, and why does it not have the same issues? Better alignment control of its components?? I need to see an exploded diagram and try to understand it :roll:
Current:
23MY Porsche Macan GTS in Papaya
23MY Cupra Born V3 77kW in Aurora

Previously loved:
ALPINA: E91 B3SBiturbo #127, E92 B3SBiturbo #285, E90 D3Biturbo #097, E85 Roadster S #168 & variety of 'beige' 4 and 6-cyl BMW lumps.
PORSCHE: Macan S, Cayman 981 S, Cayman 981 GTS

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Post by KennyJunior2 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:41 am

Hands up over here as another BT owner whose car has had the 'FIX'. The car was dealer purchased with just over 6500miles on the clock. Took my wife for a drive in it the day I bought it. She commented on the judder straight away. I put it down to adopting a new driving style. I was wrong. Being interested in the D3 a year or so ago I'd heard of this problem so with some research and very helpful expert guidance I was forearmed.

An initial diagnosis was undertaken by local dealer (not dealer bought from). Hooked up to a laptop, no test drive. A software upgrade was needed. Booked in but it didn't happen. New clutch was needed. Not fly wheel, just clutch. Dealer very matter of fact about it.

I wanted the 'modified' clutch assembly but was willing to accept the SW upgrade as a first step, knowing it more than likely wouldn't work. I believe it was the same fix as being advised to give it more revs. Not ideal reverse parking up hill into a tight space.

So then new clutch at around 8900miles. Took couple of days to fit and when returned to me I thought it was still there. I'll put this down to being too analytical. When just getting on with driving, normal everyday manoeuvres and all everything is fine. No hints of any problems. So far. I do a lot of miles over every type of road and live on a hill, there has been no noticeable judder.

After reading Chrisbins post I'll be keeping a close eye on it over the coming miles/months.

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Post by biturb » Fri May 11, 2012 10:07 am

Ive got me D3 BT booked in early June for a judder 'fix', it will be interesting to see what they do and the info above is invaluable thanks.

So far, im far from happy with any aspect of purchase,service and knowladge from the Alpina,BMW guys.

Lucky i like the car so much :D
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ade and liz flint
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Post by ade and liz flint » Fri May 11, 2012 10:25 am

biturb wrote:Ive got me D3 BT booked in early June for a judder 'fix', it will be interesting to see what they do and the info above is invaluable thanks.

So far, im far from happy with any aspect of purchase,service and knowladge from the Alpina,BMW guys.

Lucky i like the car so much :D
Good luck, and fill us in on the outcome.

Agree with your other comments....the only reason I put up with a lot of it is because the car is utterly brilliant. In general, they have a lot to improve upon with customer care, though.
Current:
23MY Porsche Macan GTS in Papaya
23MY Cupra Born V3 77kW in Aurora

Previously loved:
ALPINA: E91 B3SBiturbo #127, E92 B3SBiturbo #285, E90 D3Biturbo #097, E85 Roadster S #168 & variety of 'beige' 4 and 6-cyl BMW lumps.
PORSCHE: Macan S, Cayman 981 S, Cayman 981 GTS

KennyJunior2
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Post by KennyJunior2 » Fri May 11, 2012 11:18 am

So far, im far from happy with any aspect of purchase,service and knowladge from the Alpina,BMW guys.

Lucky i like the car so much


Agree with your other comments....the only reason I put up with a lot of it is because the car is utterly brilliant. In general, they have a lot to improve upon with customer care, though.

Have to agree with the sentiment here. This car purchase is something that took a few years to achieve. Never bought such a new car before. The shine is lost when a serious problem shows up to early on in ownership. The car is so capable, so good in so many ways but how long does good will towards a brand last? People are fickle. I do realise the D3 is only one element of Alpina but mud sticks. As for dealers well IF i'm ever to buy another car it won't be from where I bought the D3. Why? They didn't return phone calls, not hard is it? Oh did get a customer satisfactory survey to complete
¬/-

Sorry for going OT. To the OP hope you get some recourse soon.

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IAM Joe
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Post by IAM Joe » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:50 pm

Dropped the car off at Sytners Sheffield this morning. Had a new shape (F20) 118d as a courtesy car. Impressed with all of the toys and build quality over the previous model. Very easy to drive (if a little light on the controls than I'm used to) and nippy enough. I-drive very intuitive and excellent sounding stereo. Still not keen on the looks but an improvement over the previous model.

Picked the D3 up this afternoon, excellent service as always and thanks to Dean for looking after me. As before, the car feels amazing again with light clutch action and smooth gear changes.

I was expecting just the clutch to be changed from the symptoms I was experiencing but I was told it was the flywheel again and the seal had gone and contaminated the clutch as before. I queried why this was different to the last time and was told that because the fluid had leaked, the flywheel was vibrating badly. It was apparently very obvious when the items were removed that it was faulty and had certainly left its mark on the clutch too! :shock:

So, a few hundred pounds lighter in the pocket (£100 more than last time too :cry:), we'll see how long this one lasts! :roll:
Joe

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ade and liz flint
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Post by ade and liz flint » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:14 pm

Blimey, Joe! that was a serious failure yet again :shock: Did you get some assistance towards parts again seeing as this isn't your 1st failure? I certainly hope you did....

It therefore sounds like the original D3MT clutch problems have not been cured. Worrying :?

The F20...a seriously ugly motor car :shock: Better than nothing, though (as some of our members receive :roll: )
Current:
23MY Porsche Macan GTS in Papaya
23MY Cupra Born V3 77kW in Aurora

Previously loved:
ALPINA: E91 B3SBiturbo #127, E92 B3SBiturbo #285, E90 D3Biturbo #097, E85 Roadster S #168 & variety of 'beige' 4 and 6-cyl BMW lumps.
PORSCHE: Macan S, Cayman 981 S, Cayman 981 GTS

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IAM Joe
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Post by IAM Joe » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:28 pm

ade and liz flint wrote:Blimey, Joe! that was a serious failure yet again :shock: Did you get some assistance towards parts again seeing as this isn't your 1st failure? I certainly hope you did....

It therefore sounds like the original D3MT clutch problems have not been cured. Worrying :?

The F20...a seriously ugly motor car :shock: Better than nothing, though (as some of our members receive :roll: )
Parts supplied FOC and half labour paid for as goodwill by BMW UK. I had to pay the other half of the labour including diagnostics. At main dealer rates, this is still a substantial amount but significantly less than what the total bill would be :shock: However, as there is no 'cure' it may, or should I say will most likely happen again at some point in the future :cry:

I had a mini clubman cooper last time it was in. Prefer the 1 series from a driving point of view.
Joe

SOLD!

Diesel Power! #412

ade and liz flint
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Post by ade and liz flint » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:35 pm

Better than nothing Joe, but it shouldn't be happening...plain and simple. Makes me wonder how many MT's are out there with knackered clutch assemblies and the owners are unaware :roll: How many miles between your failures?

Hope you don't get another failure anytime soon...it's getting ridiculous :o

The Cooper Clubman in standard 1.6 guise is gutless, and the interior is a disaster :shock: So yes, small mercies this time for you.
Current:
23MY Porsche Macan GTS in Papaya
23MY Cupra Born V3 77kW in Aurora

Previously loved:
ALPINA: E91 B3SBiturbo #127, E92 B3SBiturbo #285, E90 D3Biturbo #097, E85 Roadster S #168 & variety of 'beige' 4 and 6-cyl BMW lumps.
PORSCHE: Macan S, Cayman 981 S, Cayman 981 GTS

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IAM Joe
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Post by IAM Joe » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:45 pm

I 'put up with it' for a couple of years really (50k miles). Don't think it was any more than a couple of months before it started to occur after the first 'fix'.

I was surprised by how bad it was as it only occurred very occasionally and wasn't un-drive-able by any means.
Joe

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Diesel Power! #412

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Post by Big G » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:35 pm

agreed a problem with BMW's for years. I had it with an E36 318is coupe, E46 323ci coupe and now with my D3 Biturbo coupe.
Just before my D3BT was out of warranty I took it to Sytner Sheffield who gave me the 'software upgrade'. Slightly better then returned a few months later.
It is sporadic enough not to cause concern but annoying.
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Dannyb7890
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Re: Clutch Judder Experiences and Latest Information

Post by Dannyb7890 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:34 am

Hi All, bit old now this post! But I love my D3BT although I purchased the touring with 68k on , its a 2010 and noticed the judder right off the mark but thought it was me going from a 6 potter Z3M to the 4 potter D3.

Reading up through this feed my fears are now apparent! Is there now all these years later a permanent fix? 🤔

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DonFlintoni
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Re: Clutch Judder Experiences and Latest Information

Post by DonFlintoni » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:31 pm

I fixed mine by getting a new DMF. I had a new clutch plate at the same time as it was an opportune moment.
Former Alpina owner. Having a break.

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