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I live in the USA... The choice: B7 vs. M5
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WillTell



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: I live in the USA... The choice: B7 vs. M5 Reply with quote

Pros and cons...

B7
Pros: Fast, Luxurious, Soft suspension setting for NYC-area roads, Flies under the radar
Cons: Big, Big, Big, Big


M5
Pros: Fast, Perfect size
Cons: Harsh ride, "Go-fast" interior, Attracts attention of boy racers


I'd do anything for a B5. I don't see it happening. If any of you have any idea how it could, let me know. And please, no B6 suggestions--it's nearing the end of it's life and while I don't have to have the latest of everything, I don't want to spend this sort of money on a car that is about to be discontinued.

Cheers!
-Will
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E24man
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do know the B7 and M5 will be discontinued pretty soon after the B6 don't you?

Longevity of model life in BMW car ranges is little more than a few years these days.

Anyway, in your summary you've nailed the key differentiating qualities between the Alpina and Motorsport cars; M5, harsh ride, attracts boy racers, and B7, fast, flies under the radar.

Exactly how much bigger is the B& you are considering than the M5 you are considering anyway?
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E24man

2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)
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Metrics
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E24man wrote:
You do know the B7 and M5 will be discontinued pretty soon after the B6 don't you?


The current 7 is a much newer car than the 6 and much earlier in it's lifecycle.

The M5 has just been launched.

So a bit puzzled as to why they will be discontinued close to the 6/B6?
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2012 Alpina D5 BiTurbo No. 13
2002 Alpina B10 V8S No. 60
1993 Mercedes 190E 2.6 Sportline spec
2005 Audi TT 225
1991 Mk1 Golf GTI Sportline cabriolet
1983 Mk1 Golf GTI
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MichaelC
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is that the 8 replaces the 6. I stand open to correction. On the subject of the 8, on talking to Alpina when I was at Goodwood earlier this year is that a B8 is three/four years off.

So, if I was choosing between the B7 and a B5/M5 I would choose a B6! Seriously, and it is down to preference, I would go the B7 route. Exclusivity...
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E24man
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metrics wrote:
E24man wrote:
You do know the B7 and M5 will be discontinued pretty soon after the B6 don't you?


The current 7 is a much newer car than the 6 and much earlier in it's lifecycle.

The M5 has just been launched.

So a bit puzzled as to why they will be discontinued close to the 6/B6?


My apologies; I thought the B6 was based upon the G32 from 2017, and hence was newer than the 2015 G11 7 Series and 2016 G30 5 Series.

The successor to the F6/12/13 6 Series is listed as the G15 8 Series.

Aside to that the G11 7 Series is 6.5 inches longer and 1.5 inches wider than the G30 5 Series, as well as being a fraction lower, so not a huge amount in real life terms, hardly "Big, Big, Big, Big".

I'd be after a B7.
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E24man

2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)
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WillTell



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E24man wrote:
Metrics wrote:
E24man wrote:
You do know the B7 and M5 will be discontinued pretty soon after the B6 don't you?


The current 7 is a much newer car than the 6 and much earlier in it's lifecycle.

The M5 has just been launched.

So a bit puzzled as to why they will be discontinued close to the 6/B6?


My apologies; I thought the B6 was based upon the G32 from 2017, and hence was newer than the 2015 G11 7 Series and 2016 G30 5 Series.

The successor to the F6/12/13 6 Series is listed as the G15 8 Series.

Aside to that the G11 7 Series is 6.5 inches longer and 1.5 inches wider than the G30 5 Series, as well as being a fraction lower, so not a huge amount in real life terms, hardly "Big, Big, Big, Big".

I'd be after a B7.



Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Actually, I get different dimensions: The current 7 is 206.7" and the current 5 is 195.5". That's just under a foot longer which, as we know, in the car world, is considerable. You're right about the width.

A few weeks ago I was given a B7 to test for the weekend. Yes, given its sheer power, it drove as if it were much smaller. But "feel" is not my concern; the reality of the car's size does. Again, when spending this sort of money I'm frustrated to have to compromise.

My dealer is going to get me another test drive in an M5, which hopefully I'll be able to drive on my local shi11y roads. Then I'll make the decision.

Thanks again,
Will
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Metrics
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Will

Excuse my ignorance, but is there no B5 in the US market?
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2012 Alpina D5 BiTurbo No. 13
2002 Alpina B10 V8S No. 60
1993 Mercedes 190E 2.6 Sportline spec
2005 Audi TT 225
1991 Mk1 Golf GTI Sportline cabriolet
1983 Mk1 Golf GTI
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E24man
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WillTell wrote:


Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Actually, I get different dimensions: The current 7 is 206.7" and the current 5 is 195.5". That's just under a foot longer which, as we know, in the car world, is considerable. You're right about the width.

A few weeks ago I was given a B7 to test for the weekend. Yes, given its sheer power, it drove as if it were much smaller. But "feel" is not my concern; the reality of the car's size does. Again, when spending this sort of money I'm frustrated to have to compromise.

My dealer is going to get me another test drive in an M5, which hopefully I'll be able to drive on my local shi11y roads. Then I'll make the decision.

Thanks again,
Will


That 206.7" is the lwb V12 cars, the swb V8 cars upon which the B7 is based are the measurement I quoted.
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E24man

2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)
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Guy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: B5 vs M5 Reply with quote

I've not driven a current 7 series, though I've driven the current 5 extensively and also owned prior B5 and 750s. My opinion would be:

Both the cars are very new, so have very similar tech and feel very modern, the 5 feels slightly newer, the 7 is due an LCI i.e. facelift very shortly.

The M5 is smaller, faster and more agile, but less of a luxury car. The B7 is a rare beast indeed and very refined and capable, but bigger and less agile.

Regarding length of the B7, I believe that like the M760i it is only now made in long wheel-base. Both the US and UK sites show long-wheelbase only and I cannot find reference to a short-wheelbase B7 anywhere, even the German configurator shows only long-wheelbase. This extra length is unnecessary unless being chauffeured in my opinion.

Personally having driven extensively in the USA, either car should be fine on US roads, as they are generally far more accommodating to larger cars. That said New York has terrible road conditions and smaller roads than many cities.

To me the choice would be driven by:

Luxury and subtlety - B7
Agility and size - M5

The other aspect of the B7 that is not always appreciated in the USA, where cars are ordered into dealer stock, is the ability to really extensively customise the interiors beyond what is possible in any normal BMW.
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WillTell



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E24man wrote:
WillTell wrote:


Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Actually, I get different dimensions: The current 7 is 206.7" and the current 5 is 195.5". That's just under a foot longer which, as we know, in the car world, is considerable. You're right about the width.

A few weeks ago I was given a B7 to test for the weekend. Yes, given its sheer power, it drove as if it were much smaller. But "feel" is not my concern; the reality of the car's size does. Again, when spending this sort of money I'm frustrated to have to compromise.

My dealer is going to get me another test drive in an M5, which hopefully I'll be able to drive on my local shi11y roads. Then I'll make the decision.

Thanks again,
Will


That 206.7" is the lwb V12 cars, the swb V8 cars upon which the B7 is based are the measurement I quoted.


Ahhh, you're in England. In the US they only sell the LWB. I haven't played with the English configurator so I'm not sure what's available. I do know, that you have every iteration of Alpina they make. Sigh, I may have to move back there... Smile
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WillTell



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: B5 vs M5 Reply with quote

Guy wrote:
I've not driven a current 7 series, though I've driven the current 5 extensively and also owned prior B5 and 750s. My opinion would be:

Both the cars are very new, so have very similar tech and feel very modern, the 5 feels slightly newer, the 7 is due an LCI i.e. facelift very shortly.

The M5 is smaller, faster and more agile, but less of a luxury car. The B7 is a rare beast indeed and very refined and capable, but bigger and less agile.

Regarding length of the B7, I believe that like the M760i it is only now made in long wheel-base. Both the US and UK sites show long-wheelbase only and I cannot find reference to a short-wheelbase B7 anywhere, even the German configurator shows only long-wheelbase. This extra length is unnecessary unless being chauffeured in my opinion.

Personally having driven extensively in the USA, either car should be fine on US roads, as they are generally far more accommodating to larger cars. That said New York has terrible road conditions and smaller roads than many cities.

To me the choice would be driven by:

Luxury and subtlety - B7
Agility and size - M5

The other aspect of the B7 that is not always appreciated in the USA, where cars are ordered into dealer stock, is the ability to really extensively customise the interiors beyond what is possible in any normal BMW.



Couple of things... first, thanks for your thoughts. Ok, in the US the 7 SWB is no longer offered. In any trim. Just the LWB. And, yes, it's 206.7". Same thing for the B7.

So, you know how I said I was going to get another test drive of the M5? Got a call from my dealer this morning. I live and work in the suburbs but spend my weekends in the city. It's really in the suburbs on the shi11y suburban roads that I wanted to test drive the thing. My dealer drove from the city and met me at my house. I got to drive the thing around my neighborhood. No doubt about it, even in comfort setting, compared to the B7 the ride is much harsher. Just as importantly, the seat is very firm in comparison. I just bought a waterrower. The seat felt like I was sitting on the waterrower seat. Damn firm.

So, if it comes down to it, B7 all the way. My main car right now is a 2011 MB GL450. So it's not like I'm not used to the size. The issue is that you hit a curb in a truck, you break the curb. Do that in an Alpina, pull over, vomit, cry, yell at kids, go to dealer...
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WillTell



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: B5 vs M5 Reply with quote

Guy wrote:
I've not driven a current 7 series, though I've driven the current 5 extensively and also owned prior B5 and 750s. My opinion would be:

Both the cars are very new, so have very similar tech and feel very modern, the 5 feels slightly newer, the 7 is due an LCI i.e. facelift very shortly.

The M5 is smaller, faster and more agile, but less of a luxury car. The B7 is a rare beast indeed and very refined and capable, but bigger and less agile.

Regarding length of the B7, I believe that like the M760i it is only now made in long wheel-base. Both the US and UK sites show long-wheelbase only and I cannot find reference to a short-wheelbase B7 anywhere, even the German configurator shows only long-wheelbase. This extra length is unnecessary unless being chauffeured in my opinion.

Personally having driven extensively in the USA, either car should be fine on US roads, as they are generally far more accommodating to larger cars. That said New York has terrible road conditions and smaller roads than many cities.

To me the choice would be driven by:

Luxury and subtlety - B7
Agility and size - M5

The other aspect of the B7 that is not always appreciated in the USA, where cars are ordered into dealer stock, is the ability to really extensively customise the interiors beyond what is possible in any normal BMW.


I should add that the configurator for Alpina here in the US is very similar to the BMW configurator. So while it is possible to configure a brand new car, it's not the Alpina configurator. For example, there is no Lavalina option and the is no ALPINA livery!!!! Yes, it says ALPINA on the back and on the front skirt, but nothing on the side other than B7 on the pillar. After my test in the M5 today I told my dealer that if I do order a B7 you better be damned sure I'm getting the livery. You don't pay this sort of money without getting it exactly as I want.
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Metrics
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you find the M5?

Autocar recent did a test of the B5 v M5 and concluded the M5 rode every bit as well as the B5, which is quite an achievement given the Alpina ethos to chassis development for daily use.

I know it's not an Alpina, but if you can't get a B5 then the M5 appears to tock the most boxes?
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2012 Alpina D5 BiTurbo No. 13
2002 Alpina B10 V8S No. 60
1993 Mercedes 190E 2.6 Sportline spec
2005 Audi TT 225
1991 Mk1 Golf GTI Sportline cabriolet
1983 Mk1 Golf GTI
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: B5 vs M5 Reply with quote

WillTell wrote:
After my test in the M5 today I told my dealer that if I do order a B7 you better be damned sure I'm getting the livery. You don't pay this sort of money without getting it exactly as I want.


I've only ever bought Alpinas used, but if I was buying a new one I'd insist on flying to the factory and specifying a fully bespoke car with the people that know them best.
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WillTell



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metrics wrote:
Hi Will

Excuse my ignorance, but is there no B5 in the US market?


No. Maybe I should write to Mr. Bovensiepen. Oh, yeah, did that. He graciously replied. Told me to by the B6... groan. Sad

Oh, and it's not like I'd buy any budget version either. Lavalina, etc. Heck, I'd have the steering wheel lined in the ball sacks of a cashmere goat if it would help get one here.

I won't.
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