B10 V8 timing chain guides

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:28 pm

On my way home Friday and thought the engine wasn't quite right and then the EML light flickered close to home.

After re-starting on the drive the car sounds like a diesel and shakes which isn't good

Plugged in DIS and it says the DME has 2 errors: inlet-camshaft control, bank 1 and tank-venting valve. The camshaft position sensor seemed a possible so switched them over (didn't realise how easy it would be) but the fault has stayed on bank 1.

Think this is a bit beyond me so will be the first time I've had to get help from a garage in my 5 years of ownership. The small garage that does my MOTs has worked on another B10 so I'll be contacting them tomorrow.

If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears but googling the error from DIS brings up all kinds of issues from plugs to chain guides.......

Oneball · Post by **Oneball** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:34 pm

Could be the cam solenoid rather than the sensor.

They're the can shaped things below the sensors, you could unplug the electrical connector to each and see what effect it has.

If you then think that's what is at fault you can swap them side to side to see if the error changes banks, it's a bit more complicated than the sensor, you/ll need to undo the two small bolts and remove the seal and carrier then with a long socket (32mm I think) unscrew the solenoid and swap them over. You can find instructions on the internet.

The tank valve is on the front off the left hand bank, (well it is on a 540i) you'll be able to feel it vibrate when the engine is running if it is working.

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:46 pm

Thanks for the suggestion, I might look into the sensor at the weekend. I hadn't bothered to look into the tank valve issue as it's an intermittent fault but if I sort out the more serious problem I might get that done now I know where it is.

My only concern is that about a month ago I changed the timing chain tensioner as it's such an easy job and it's still bolted up as it should be so I can't see that has anything to do with it but I'm running out of ideas.

Oneball · Post by **Oneball** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:27 am

Wouldn't have thought the tensioner was an issue as your fault is only on one bank.

It's most likely to be Vanos related and the most likely culprit if there's no nasty rattling noises is the solenoid for that bank. The solenoid fails and doesn't control the oil pressure to the Vanos which means the cam timing is stuck and so idle and mid range is really rough.

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:44 am

That post gives me some encouragement, the engine has always run really quietly with no vanos noise or anything untoward until this.

Will have to wait until the weekend to check but you're saying if I just unplug the sensor on bank 1 and there's no change I should then try and swap them over to see if the fault moves to bank 2 which would mean the solenoid was at fault?

Oneball · Post by **Oneball** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:10 am

It's the solenoids not the sensors but otherwise that's correct, but I'm not sure if disconnecting the electrical connector to the solenoid is a definitive test. I think you would need to put power to the solenoid as well to be certain.

Swapping the solenoids side to side would be a definitive test. You do need a long socket to get the solenoid out.

Here's a video showing what happens to a six cylinder when the Vanos is operated at the wrong time. You can see it sounds rough but there's none of the nasty noises you usually get with timing chain issues or Vanos seals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LreEdNYx7VY

Also DIS can give you a reading for cam timing on each bank, if the Vanos on bank one is stuck it will have a different reading to bank two.

This is the full Vanos repair procedure from Besian but it also shows removal and replacement of the solenoids if you discount the other million stages.

http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures ... cedure.htm

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Thu May 04, 2017 11:28 pm

I've concluded this noise is the timing chain guides giving up so not driving the car as the noise it's making is similar to some worn chain guide videos on You Tube and after removing the new chain tensioner I fitted 200 miles ago there seems to be no resistance on screwing it or the old one back in so that confirms it for me.

As I don't have a preferred mechanic that works on the car (not needed one until now) I've asked for quotes from 2 places that seem to have good reputations: Lee Shannon in Farnham and Walker Autotech. I'll need to find a suitable way to get the car to whichever one I go with.

If anyone has any other recommendations to do the work or knows of a car transporter in the Portsmouth area I'm interested

Barry

Metrics · Post by **Metrics** » Fri May 05, 2017 8:40 am

Barry, just seen this thread.

Sorry to read this, but guess what? My car has the same issue on the timing chain guides and is being worked on currently. I'll call you.

How have you linked this to the rough running?

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:58 pm

Car dropped off at Lee Shannon's in Bentley and he's confirmed the centre timing chain guide has broken up

Sump with a few bits of plastic:

Old versus new:

Very pleased to be getting it sorted, very unhappy the guides have failed. I know the guides are known to fail at some stage on the M62 but wasn't really expecting this at a comparatively low mileage of 121k

Metrics · Post by **Metrics** » Fri May 26, 2017 8:37 am

Hi Barry

Definitely an age as well as mileage related issue. This is definitely a job that's due on any M62 engine now regardless of miles.
Plastic guides, high engine operating temps, slight changes in tensioner tolerances all contribute to what you have here. Hope it's sorted well for you.

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Sat May 27, 2017 10:54 am

Interesting picture Barry, the first time I have seen one of a chain guide.

To get the sump off do you know if it involved raising the engine or maybe the removal of the front subframe assembly?

You have now got me wondering if there is a similar one on a 6 cylinder engine.

Good luck with the repair and hopefully you will be back on the road soon.

Likewise for you Asim.

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Sat May 27, 2017 9:02 pm

Alpina Jim wrote:Interesting picture Barry, the first time I have seen one of a chain guide.

To get the sump off do you know if it involved raising the engine or maybe the removal of the front subframe assembly?

You have now got me wondering if there is a similar one on a 6 cylinder engine.

Good luck with the repair and hopefully you will be back on the road soon.

Likewise for you Asim.

Hi Jim, sump comes off with everything in place as far as I know but I'm pretty sure the 6 cylinder doesn't suffer in the same way as the V8 although I'm sure someone will be able to confirm this.

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Sat May 27, 2017 9:14 pm

Car collected from Lee this afternoon and I'm very happy (not quite so happy at paying for it but it's just one of those things).

The plus side for me is that the engine has been checked over and the chains (3 cam chains and oil pump chain) and guides are all good for the next 15 years. The best thing I can say is the engine is running as well as it always did before the guides gave up and no further damage was done so that's all I could hope for.

I'm also delighted to have found Lee via a recommendation from Timm on Meeknet/7 series forum and I'd say he's exactly what most of us are looking for in a mechanic as he's ex BMW main dealer with plenty of experience and showed interest in my problem before I'd booked the car in. After he started the work he sent me regular updates and was happy to talk through the rest of the car when I collected it.

I'd recommend him without hesitation and will use him for any further jobs that are beyond me.

E24man · Post by **E24man** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:14 am

BarryM · Post by **BarryM** » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:27 am

Just over a year on from the chain guides being replaced and I did the annual oil change today.

The engine has been running fine as you'd expect but an added bonus is a completely dry engine bay including underneath. Don't get me wrong - the engine has never used any oil but at the same time there were always a couple of areas where oil misting or the like could be seen and inevitably the engine cover underneath would have a few drops on it. Now completely clean and dry!

Almost worth the money last year to have peace of mind and an oil tight engine