98 B10 3.2 front end rattle

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:48 pm

My B10 has an annoying rattle coming from the nearside front suspension area. When going over certain bumps it sounds a bit like driving over a tin can and on a really rough bit of road it is like a tinny rattling noise.

My MOT mechanic found nothing wrong at MOT time and a couple of weeks ago we put it up on his ramp and had a good look underneath. The only thing he could identify was a common E39 problem whereby the disc splashguard was slightly loose due to a corroded fixing. I have since replaced all four fixings on the splashguard and it is now 100% secure. Unfortunately the rattle is still there.

I am now pretty sure that the rattle does not occur when the brakes are applied so is it possible this could be due to the pads themselves rattling and if so would they create this type of noise?

For info the drop links and anti roll bar bushes were changed several years but not too many miles ago. Current mileage is approaching 93k.

Any suggestions please?

Thanks

shaziman · Post by **shaziman** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Suspension top mount possibly? I know on M5's they wear out prematurely due to excessive heat from the exhaust, but obviously the engine is a different configuration.

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:09 pm

shaziman wrote:Suspension top mount possibly? I know on M5's they wear out prematurely due to excessive heat from the exhaust, but obviously the engine is a different configuration.

I did consider that but I think a top mount noise would be different to that which I am hearing, also I still reckon it disappears when braking so hence my theory about the pads rattling or similar. Unfortunately when looking on the web there are a lot of different options for E39 front end rattles.

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:09 pm

shaziman wrote:Suspension top mount possibly? I know on M5's they wear out prematurely due to excessive heat from the exhaust, but obviously the engine is a different configuration.

I did consider that but I think a top mount noise would be different to that which I am hearing, also I still reckon it disappears when braking so hence my theory about the pads rattling or similar. Unfortunately when looking on the web there are a lot of different options for E39 front end rattles.

Ikule · Post by **Ikule** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Hi Jim, it could be the pads rattling, but the fact it's just started presumably with the same pads you've had in it for a while would make me think the pad rattle was an effect not the actual cause,
I would check that one of the slider pins in the caliper hasn't come loose or that the anti rattle spring hasn't weakened and lost tension.
Also check for any small stones getting trapped in the caliper or disc somewhere, it's surprising the noises they make, many years ago my Dad had a Mk 3 Cavalier that started rattling at the n/s rear,
I checked the brakes, suspension, everything to fix it but to no avail, I had one more go at it and by sheer luck found a 40mm piece of plum slate lying in a enclosed area of the trailing arm behind the brakes,
where you couldn't see it and from which it couldn't easily escape,

our caravan in Wales has a slate parking area.....

best of luck tracking it down mate.

rc944 · Post by **rc944** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:01 pm

brake disc protection plate has corroded around the lower fixing point so i expect its flapping about - very common

easy fix with a penny washer

to replace the plate is a hub removal job

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:20 pm

Ikule wrote:Hi Jim, it could be the pads rattling, but the fact it's just started presumably with the same pads you've had in it for a while would make me think the pad rattle was an effect not the actual cause,
I would check that one of the slider pins in the caliper hasn't come loose or that the anti rattle spring hasn't weakened and lost tension.
Also check for any small stones getting trapped in the caliper or disc somewhere, it's surprising the noises they make, many years ago my Dad had a Mk 3 Cavalier that started rattling at the n/s rear,
I checked the brakes, suspension, everything to fix it but to no avail, I had one more go at it and by sheer luck found a 40mm piece of plum slate lying in a enclosed area of the trailing arm behind the brakes,
where you couldn't see it and from which it couldn't easily escape,

our caravan in Wales has a slate parking area.....

best of luck tracking it down mate.

Thanks for the reply Steve.
To be honest it has been doing it for a while now and recently I decided I need to use my B10 more and consequently have become more aware of the noise, especially with the windows open. I took the calliper off a few weeks ago to deal with the splashguard bolts but I left the pads in and didn't check them any further.
Currently I am out of action car wise for a while as I have had a small operation. When I am back behind the wheel I am going to drive to an area I know has an old cobble stone road and I will be able to prove if my braking theory is correct or not and go from there.
As for stones, I have read that other E39 owners have had this type of problem so it might be something else for me to consider.

Thanks again Steve and it's good knowing you are still lurking in the background waiting to help fellow 3.2 owners

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:43 pm

rc944 wrote:brake disc protection plate has corroded around the lower fixing point so i expect its flapping about - very common

easy fix with a penny washer

to replace the plate is a hub removal job

Thanks but I have already done this, I renewed all four of the fixing bolts although the corroded one was more of a stud with a fixing washer on it which I removed with mole grips and replaced with a bolt, and a bigger washer of course.

rc944 · Post by **rc944** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:59 pm

sorry should have re-read original post

could be a failing caliper spring but it would be the first time ive heard of one failing.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=e39+b ... CGwA9-sWfM:

given the pads are located by way of spring within the piston i cannot think how they would come loose

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:01 pm

rc944 wrote:sorry should have re-read original post

could be a failing caliper spring but it would be the first time ive heard of one failing.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=e39+b ... CGwA9-sWfM:

given the pads are located by way of spring within the piston i cannot think how they would come loose

I still need to prove my theory that having the brakes on stops the noise, unfortunately that will have to wait for a while until I can drive again and take it down a cobbled road where it will be easy to check it.

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:41 pm

I took my B10 to Old Portsmouth today as there are a few cobbled roads there, also some nice places to have lunch and look out over the harbour on a sunny day.

The rattling noise was easily reproduced there and as I thought stopped with a slight operation of the brakes with my left foot. This was done in 1st gear and at a low speed so I am now sure that I have a rattling brake pads issue or similar. All I need to do now is wait until I am able to crawl around again and have a good look. Fingers crossed it will be easy to locate, watch this space.

Metrics · Post by **Metrics** » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:22 pm

Good luck sorting Jim, hope it's a simple fix

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:27 am

Metrics wrote:Good luck sorting Jim, hope it's a simple fix

Thanks Asim.

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:22 pm

I took the nearside front brake apart a couple of weeks ago and there was no obvious sign of what is causing the rattling noise. The inner pad was clipped nicely into the piston although I applied a bit more tension to the spring clips just in case.
The anti rattle spring on the outside seemed ok and the outer pad seemed to be held in position ok with no obvious play.

With the caliper disassembled, one thing I did wonder about is the amount of vertical movement the outer pad has when fitted loose in the caliper, several millimetres up and down. Is that the problem and the pad is rattling up and down when the wheel hits bumps hard?

I have read that the E39 model is prone to this problem along with other manufacturers cars, Lotus actually fit thin anti rattle pads between the brake pad and caliper to stop it. Also I have read that some people apply glue or similar on the back of the pad to help cure the problem, anyone else come across this?

The other point to mention is that I replaced this caliper about three years ago as the old one was binding and I fitted a refurbished caliper supplied by Pagid. My thought now is whether they may have machined off a bit of metal where the pads sit top and bottom and possibly this has caused the problem, although it definitely did not do it at first.

After cleaning and as usual using copper grease on all the contact points on the caliper / pads, the rattling noise is now worse than before so I reckon I am on the right track. I used my B10 again today and once again light feathering of the brakes stops the noise and it is definitely coming from the nearside front.

My next idea is to pull both front calipers apart and measure the vertical play on the outer pads to see if there is a different clearance. For info the pads are ATE.

Sorry about the long write up but any other suggestions please?

Alpina Jim · Post by **Alpina Jim** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:39 pm

Fixed it

, well 90%

I did two things that have made a great improvement. I bought some genuine ATE sticky tape pads and stuck the outer pad into the caliper. They are a clear double sided type tape and obviously good for braking temperatures. It is interesting that ATE sell these to overcome rattling pads, so it is a known problem.

The other thing I did was to greatly increase the tension on the anti rattle clip that helps hold the two parts of the caliper together. It made it difficult to fit the clip but a bit of determination got it done.

When test driving my car slowly over a cobbled road there is now no rattle at all which is great compared to the awful noise before. Unfortunately I still get a bit of a rattle when hitting bumps at higher speeds on normal roads, although I only hear this if I have got the passenger window open. It is still definitely coming from the nearside front but I have been unable to confirm whether it disappears or not when the brakes are applied, so it could possibly be suspension related or similar. The quest continues.