theALPINAregister.com Forum Index theALPINAregister.com
The Forum section of www.theALPINAregister.com
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   Site SearchSite Search   Forum SearchForum Search   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  GalleryGallery   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Not quite this week, but I thought you might be interested.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    theALPINAregister.com Forum Index -> This week I will be mainly driving....
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
magicb5



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Not quite this week, but I thought you might be interested. Reply with quote

I had the opportunity to test drive the Tesla Model S, so I took the B5 (E60) out to have a direct comparison.
There were 2 models 85D and P85D with insane mode.
First I listened to their explanation, which included the 700kg battery pack (!), then I went for a drive in the 85D. I commented that the acceleration seems to drop off rapidly above 80-100km/h, so they took me out in the P85D, and switched it to insane mode. This time the initial start is unbelievable – you could get whiplash – then after the initial push I had the same feeling that the acceleration was dropping off quickly, and was accelerating less than my B5.

So, I wanted to understand
- Is it just a feeling (ie the reduced acceleration was relative to the very high initial acceleration)
- Is it due to no shifts (with automatic or manual gears the body has a change in acceleration that “resets” your feeling of acceleration), or
- Is it for real.

The first article that helped me understand it was a Consumer Reports comparison of the Hellcat and a Tesla. This shows the Hellcat has faster acceleration at higher speed, even if the starting acceleration is lower.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/07/tesla-model-s-p85d-vs-dodge-challenger-hellcat-video/index.htm

I then cross checked this against a few drag times results (accel graphs) which also showed around 1g for the first second – impressive stuff.
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-p85d-insane-vs-sport
So, why might a 650 HP car feel slower than a 500 HP car ?

First looking at the weight and the power to weight ratio, the figures I could find are


So the B5 only loses 3% by this measure

Next acceleration times I could find
Alpina B5 Tesla S P85D
0-100 4.7 3.6
0-160 9.5 8.6
0-200 14.5 14.6
100-160 4.8 5.0
100-200 9.8 11.0
So the B5 does actually measure faster than the Tesla above 100km/h, but this must mean the Tesla does not continue to develop 100% of its power at higher speeds, or cannot deliver the full power for this length of time
For the record, here are some graphs I prepared to help understand the situation (based on the quoted power outputs and gearing and no losses).




However after some thought – why do I need a car that is faster in 100-200 acceleration, ie how often do I use it (since Germany is 1.5 hours away it can be used).
_________________
E60 B5 in Alpina Blue
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WINNE1
ALPI
ALPI


Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 433
Location: PE12

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought is you have a lot of time on your hands!! but well done very interesting !!
_________________
B6 convertible 4.4 black with silver decals .
B5 saloon 4.4 black with silver decals .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhillV8S
ALPI
ALPI


Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As accomplished as the Tesla no doubt is, the styling leaves me cold and the drivetrain must feel like a CVT which though effective is dull as ditchwater to a petrolhead.
Also how many times can the Tesla launch in insanity mode and be fun for before the long coffee break waiting for a recharge? In the Alpina you can repeat the fun over and over and only takes a few minutes at a petrol station before your on your way again leaving mr Tesla to his thoughts over his now very cold coffee!
I had a family friend visit me last week up from London in his new Tesla and he was having to plan his route carefully in advance, as he was travelling around the UK to enable a road trip to be possible. He was finding ownership abit annoying when taking his car out of the city.
I’ll be sticking with the B6 for now I think 😉
_________________
E39 B10 V8S #037 Saloon SOLD
Range Rover TDV8
E65 BMW 760i individual Sold
E64 B6s Cabriolet #100
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Broch
ALPIN
ALPIN


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 692
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to acceleration between cars, I don't know the dynamics of what the different feeling of acceleration is called, but in my B6 the feeling I get is very explosive.
I test drove a new B4s back in June, and the acceleration although quicker in that car felt very linear and smooth. It's not until I looked at the speedo that I was shocked at the speed I was doing after just a few seconds.
So although the B6 has more ponies and feels faster, the B4s was certainly more smooth and rapid.
Could this be down to 'new v's old' perhaps? Confused

Onzie
_________________
B6 Convertible
B3S Bi-Turbo Tourer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Norrie
ALPIN
ALPIN


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 697
Location: Horsham West Sussex

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Tesla v Alpina Reply with quote

This is a strange comparison as clearly not talking about like for like. I see lots of people who have the Tesla, they are on the constant worry of where do I recharge my car?

There is by way of an example a few charging points at a Hotel chain near Northampton, but here is the wammy, one forgets to register your car in the hotel foyer on their electronic pad and you could get a 100 GB pounds parking fine. Secondly what is there to do whilst you wait the 30 minutes or is it 45 for it to charge? Yes, they sell that kind of coffee that is 3 pounds plus a cup. I have seen families spending over 20 pounds easily, so that is a personal choice, but one wonders if they would be there if not for recharging, answer is clearly no.

Therefore, if you want an electric car Tesla is an option, if you want an Alpina and enjoy the petrol or diesel engine why even talk about Tesla?

I guess that Alpina might be forced to make a hybrid or even all electric in the future, so when they do, make your like for like comparison and let us know?
_________________
E65 B7 4.4 V8 supercharged No 106 (1 of 7 in UK) - purely for pleasure
E 39 523i for winter and track day - leave it anywhere
E92 325i - written off by X5 I was not driving!
E92 335D Twin Turbo - sold to Sytner Alpina
E 60 - 525D new - sold to Cooper BMW
E 60 - 530D new - sold at auction
E 39 - 520i new - sold at auction
E 30 - 316i new Touring - sold at auction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
190Colditz
ALP
ALP


Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Posts: 173
Location: Westminster - back in the thick of it

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a valid comparison because private Tesla owners / lessors (as opposed to the luxury cab fleet) are always pointing out how their car can accelerate as fast as a sports-bike (without mentioning that they can probably do this once or twice a day without utterly draining the battery) and one of the headline items for an Alpina owner is how fast they go.

I'm in no way an electric car fan, but I would welcome a hybrid Alpina as I live in London (but drive outside London, which still involves driving out of London). 7-8mpg isn't very friendly and no fun at all at a 10mph average speed. The biggest issue I have with electric cars is the 700kg batteries: that's an awful lump of weight vs the 250ish kgs of a BMW V8 mill and the suspension and chassis has to cope with that.
_________________
@190Colditz
B5 BiTurbo Touring Nr15 (The Gorilla)
B10 3.3 Touring Nr51 (Die Schreibmaschine - sold)
E46 323iSE runabout
Yamaha R1 5 valve (The Black Whanger)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Charles
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6636
Location: Oxford

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a video doing the rounds where Andy Bovensiepen talks about ALPINA possibly having an inline electric motor between the engine and the gearbox, which can be used in town but is small enough that the battery pack doesn't take up too much space/weight.
_________________
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order Wink
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MarkWG
ALPINA
ALPINA


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 1064
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Tesla vs Alpina Reply with quote

I've only perceptions rather than measurements, but I was lucky enough to passenger in both a Tesla S & an Aston Martin Taraf a couple of years back, both driven very enthusiastically on track.

Very impressive machines, but the Tesla did leave me cold - just the sound of a couple of spin dryers as the scenery disappeared behind us, where as the Aston was pure shock & awe, whilst doing the quiet bit too. I think the Tesla would start to bore me, whereas the Aston wouldn't ever (although I'd go for a standard Rapide, styling wise)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
190Colditz
ALP
ALP


Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Posts: 173
Location: Westminster - back in the thick of it

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles wrote:
There's a video doing the rounds where Andy Bovensiepen talks about ALPINA possibly having an inline electric motor between the engine and the gearbox, which can be used in town but is small enough that the battery pack doesn't take up too much space/weight.


Yes: I thought the new B5 would have this set-up and am disappointed (but not very much).

I looked at the Panamera ST at a preview event in West London Porsche a couple of weeks ago and that looks to be a great family wagon but missing the middle rear seat.
_________________
@190Colditz
B5 BiTurbo Touring Nr15 (The Gorilla)
B10 3.3 Touring Nr51 (Die Schreibmaschine - sold)
E46 323iSE runabout
Yamaha R1 5 valve (The Black Whanger)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scalesg
ALP
ALP


Joined: 07 May 2015
Posts: 213
Location: East Sussex

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a video of Tesla V B5S in an off the blocks start. The Tesla beats the B5 off the line but the B5 eventually soars past it, which confirms one of your theories, it is real.

I searched Bing for Alpina B5 versus tesla and the evidence is there
_________________
E46 B3S Saloon
E46 330Ci
Golf VR6 loved for 7 years and then went bang at 7K rpm, sadly missed
So many other cars, faves below
Ford Orion 1.6i Ghia
Triumph dolomite 1850 (With Sprint wheels of course!)
Fiat 131 Supermiafiori
Mercedes 250CE Pillar less coupe (my first car!!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Charles
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6636
Location: Oxford

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

190Colditz wrote:
Charles wrote:
There's a video doing the rounds where Andy Bovensiepen talks about ALPINA possibly having an inline electric motor between the engine and the gearbox, which can be used in town but is small enough that the battery pack doesn't take up too much space/weight.


Yes: I thought the new B5 would have this set-up and am disappointed (but not very much).

On further investigation, I am led to believe that this is the same arrangement that BMW use for their hybrids, so probably not a surprise if ALPINA adopt a similar system.
_________________
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order Wink
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    theALPINAregister.com Forum Index -> This week I will be mainly driving.... All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group