Cheers for the updateCharles wrote:A quick google for "zf5hp19 2nd 3rd flare" reveals that this is more common than you might thinknealpina wrote:Not heard of this happening on IL6 before, but I believe this is a common complaint with V8's of this era.
Trigger's Broom
Oscar Wilde & Burkard Bovensiepen: I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.
ALPINA B3 3.2 Coupe Switch-Tronic ALPINA Blue
ALPINA B10 3.3 Saloon Manual Mora Metallic
ALPINA B3 3.2 Coupe Switch-Tronic ALPINA Blue
ALPINA B10 3.3 Saloon Manual Mora Metallic
Hope it's not too costly CharlesCharles wrote:Biting the bullet
Also make sure you always have a photo of the you with the car, so that you have the proof that it is the same car - as per Tigger's Broom 😀
Edit the 'smile' smiley is from the iPhone instead from the forum list. It looks different in different browsers.
Oscar Wilde & Burkard Bovensiepen: I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.
ALPINA B3 3.2 Coupe Switch-Tronic ALPINA Blue
ALPINA B10 3.3 Saloon Manual Mora Metallic
ALPINA B3 3.2 Coupe Switch-Tronic ALPINA Blue
ALPINA B10 3.3 Saloon Manual Mora Metallic
Been doing a bit more digging and have found this
If this is the case then it may not require a full rebuild. As it is part of the valve body then this should have been done recently, so I will need to check out exactly what was replaced. If it has been renewed, then the problem is the F clutch itself, but it is curious that it is only happening when hot.
If anyone is knowledgeable about the guts of the gearbox then please can you point me in the right direction.
If this is the case then it may not require a full rebuild. As it is part of the valve body then this should have been done recently, so I will need to check out exactly what was replaced. If it has been renewed, then the problem is the F clutch itself, but it is curious that it is only happening when hot.
If anyone is knowledgeable about the guts of the gearbox then please can you point me in the right direction.
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
After several phone calls, it appears that when the valve chest was refurbished, the D & F clutch accumulator piston cap O rings weren't changed as there was no indication on the test bed that they were passing oil. The test involved running the chest through a series of actions at different oil temperatures, so it should have picked it up. But, a few minutes at 100oC on a test bed is not the same as operating on the road when not only is the oil at temperature but all the internal parts have reached the same temperature.
As such, I have delayed taking the car to the gearbox specialists by at least a day so that we can fit new O rings and see whether that does the trick. A relatively straight forward job which could save me quite a lot of money
I am trying not to get too hopeful but logic suggests to me that if there was a problem in the mechanicals then it would show itself straight away rather than a very predictable 40 minutes or so into a journey, once everything is properly to temperature.
Only time will tell ...
After several phone calls, it appears that when the valve chest was refurbished, the D & F clutch accumulator piston cap O rings weren't changed as there was no indication on the test bed that they were passing oil. The test involved running the chest through a series of actions at different oil temperatures, so it should have picked it up. But, a few minutes at 100oC on a test bed is not the same as operating on the road when not only is the oil at temperature but all the internal parts have reached the same temperature.
As such, I have delayed taking the car to the gearbox specialists by at least a day so that we can fit new O rings and see whether that does the trick. A relatively straight forward job which could save me quite a lot of money
I am trying not to get too hopeful but logic suggests to me that if there was a problem in the mechanicals then it would show itself straight away rather than a very predictable 40 minutes or so into a journey, once everything is properly to temperature.
Only time will tell ...
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Having got all excited when we got the old O rings out and saw how they were worn, I made it as far as the slip road for the M40 at Beaconsfield and the box starting flaring again.
Heading up to Hertfordshire to the gearbox specialists tomorrow for whatever they think is needed ...
Heading up to Hertfordshire to the gearbox specialists tomorrow for whatever they think is needed ...
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Found the culprit!
The F drum has worn out and needs replacing. Having a full refurb of the gearbox and TC - both hard and soft parts this time - including specially machined shims to ensure optimal tolerances.
So now I know that the friction surfaces are good for 190k miles and the drums start to wear out at 280k miles!
Expensive but worth it (I hope) ...
The F drum has worn out and needs replacing. Having a full refurb of the gearbox and TC - both hard and soft parts this time - including specially machined shims to ensure optimal tolerances.
So now I know that the friction surfaces are good for 190k miles and the drums start to wear out at 280k miles!
Expensive but worth it (I hope) ...
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Yay!
Guess what is back on my drive?
Had a good run back from Ware in Hertfordshire and it is clear that I need to get used to what is essentially a new gearbox with everything back to OEM tolerances along with a refurbished TC that locks up properly - it appears that my instinct that it wasn't locking up correctly since the previous refurb was right as it was observed that the tolerances in the TC were way out when they opened it up.
Also, I'm not sure that they have replaced the exhaust correctly as it is a bit "boomy" but the next couple of weeks of running-in before I pop back for a 1000 mile check-up will give me time to get used (or otherwise) to the new sounds and feel.
Added bonus was that I got over 30mpg on the way back - long may that continue
Guess what is back on my drive?
Had a good run back from Ware in Hertfordshire and it is clear that I need to get used to what is essentially a new gearbox with everything back to OEM tolerances along with a refurbished TC that locks up properly - it appears that my instinct that it wasn't locking up correctly since the previous refurb was right as it was observed that the tolerances in the TC were way out when they opened it up.
Also, I'm not sure that they have replaced the exhaust correctly as it is a bit "boomy" but the next couple of weeks of running-in before I pop back for a 1000 mile check-up will give me time to get used (or otherwise) to the new sounds and feel.
Added bonus was that I got over 30mpg on the way back - long may that continue
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Curiouser and curiouser!
It appears that the booming is associated with the "new" gearbox and is beginning to reduce as the box "beds in".
All the more reason to get some more miles on the clock - quickly
It appears that the booming is associated with the "new" gearbox and is beginning to reduce as the box "beds in".
All the more reason to get some more miles on the clock - quickly
Charles
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Teacher of Chemistry and driver of ALPINAs - not necessarily in that order
B3S Touring (49/116) - been to the moon and now on the way back!
Renault Grand Espace - not mine but the wife's!
Great news, good to see that the gearbox can be re-built so successfully. For some reason I thought this wasn't possible, mine has had the oil flush as a precaution a few years back and seems to work perfectly but you never know what's round the corner.
2001 Alpina B10 V8 #185
1982 Krauser MKM1000 #121 - sold
1982 Krauser MKM1000 #121 - sold