Scottish Independence Yes or No

A place for Polls / Surveys

Moderator: neil

Scotland Independence

 
Total votes: 0

Chas
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3993
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by Chas » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:21 pm

E24man wrote:A responsible corporation will only set loose a seperate business unit provided it can be proven it has a chance to stand on its own financially.
That's a good starting point where we can agree on something :wink:

I have no doubt that Scotland can survive financially. I also have no doubt that Westminster figures can 'prove' that it cannot. Who do you want to believe?

E24man
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 2376
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:41 am
Location: Surrey

Post by E24man » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:24 pm

Chas wrote:
E24man wrote:A responsible corporation will only set loose a seperate business unit provided it can be proven it has a chance to stand on its own financially.
That's a good starting point where we can agree on something :wink:

I have no doubt that Scotland can survive financially. I also have no doubt that Westminster figures can 'prove' that it cannot. Who do you want to believe?
Simple - personally we agree to disagree :D

In reality you live there so you get your vote, accept the result and let come what may.

As I said earlier, I have no particular beef either way but people should be adequately informed about the decision and sufficiently old enough to be be able to understand the consequences of their vote.
E24man

2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd made, but less than half left now)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of only hundreds left from the thousands made and still valiantly fighting a rusty grave)

Chas
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3993
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by Chas » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:22 pm

E24man wrote:people should be adequately informed about the decision and sufficiently old enough to be be able to understand the consequences of their vote.
That's an interesting proposition and one I'd also agree with. However, I honestly don't believe the majority of voters in any democracy are adequately informed to vote in a normal election, let alone an independence referendum. In fact, and at the risk of sounding disparaging, I suspect the majority of voters in a general election don't even have sufficient capacity of understanding to make an informed decision about the multitude of topics they are actually voting on.

Democracy, after all, is just another name for mob-rule.

PerryGunn
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 1645
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:30 pm
Location: By the seaside

Post by PerryGunn » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:09 pm

Chas wrote:Democracy, after all, is just another name for mob-rule.
Winston Churchill wrote:"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Alpina Roadster S #320
BMW X3 F25 LCI 30d

John B10
ALP
ALP
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:59 am
Location: Angus, Scotland

Post by John B10 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:57 pm

I have my own,very simplistic way of looking at the subject of independance.
At the moment, Scotland is a member of a club called the United Kingdom and as members we can use the club facilities like the currency and other financial arrangements, the welfare and benefits system, the national security forces etc. etc.
If we chose to become truly independant then I cannot see how Mr Salmond can expect to continue using some of these facilities. In my opinion there is still too much vaugeness in the SNP presentation and until more definite information is available, I remain unconvinced.
John Anderson

ali
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:40 am
Location: Edinburgh

Post by ali » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:51 am

Part of my problem with this whole debarcle is getting the truth out of politicians on either side of the fence.
As a well educated individual I struggle to fathom the truth out of what both sides are saying.
Labour and the Westminster Government clearly want to stay together and as such play their "Poker hand" that way.
They will promise Scottish voters the Earth even more devolution if we vote NO then come next election we will be sold down the river by empty promises yet again only then it will be too late.
On Sept 16th Scotland has a chance to be its own nation again and personally I'd urge all residents of Scotland to vote that way whether they be Scot , English or from wherever.
As far as I see it we are another colony that has yet top be handed back our stone of destiny and our right to rule ourselves.
Is the EU really all its cracked up to be? Norway seem to do OK at things on their own
Also it doesn't matter whether we spend Pounds, drachmas or kronas if we leave Westminster we should get a 10% chunk of the pot to ourselves and not be reliant on a Pound that is borrowed.
B3 3.3 Touring #108
B10 V8 #540
B3 3.0 Biturbo #107
E46 M3 Convertible

B10BRW
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3615
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Weald of Kent

Post by B10BRW » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:24 am

If the vote is yes, a lot of Labour MPs in the English parliament will lose their seats,
Oh what a shame :D

ali
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:40 am
Location: Edinburgh

Post by ali » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:14 pm

B10BRW wrote:If the vote is yes, a lot of Labour MPs in the English parliament will lose their seats,
Oh what a shame :D
And there will never be another Tory in Scotland
B3 3.3 Touring #108
B10 V8 #540
B3 3.0 Biturbo #107
E46 M3 Convertible

User avatar
olli
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:41 pm
Location: MidBMWLands
Contact:

Post by olli » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:20 pm

Chas wrote: That's also reflected in the relationship between Bavaria and the rest of Germany. It's a symbiotic relationship which works well. Germany is well balanced in economic terms with five or six geographic centres of excellence. Bavaria has it's own identity - but it is neither subsidised, nor subsidises, the rest of the country.
Not really correct in technical terms. Bavaria has got it's own identity and all German counties also have their own governments, doing some things differently, but generally and legally Bavaria has got no other status than any other county in the "Bundesrat". (although they insist on calling themselves "Free State" :-) )
And Bavaria does well subsidise others, as their area is rich in options but not overly densely populated, so their employment and economy is very good. North Rhine Westphalia struggles a little more, as they as one of 16 Counties is home to over a fifth of Germany's population.
The instrument Bavaria complains about is called "Laenderfinanzausgleich" and regulates financial equalisation between the counties.

But I 100% agree that any Bavarian sees it exactly as you described it. ;-)

Kentish man
ALP
ALP
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:03 am
Location: Gravesend Kent

Independence for Scotland

Post by Kentish man » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:14 pm

As a fairly well educated Englishman living in The United Kingdom ; just how much did The Scottish Parliament cost to build? How much money did Scottish Gordon Brown pinch from my pension? How much has Scottish Anthony Blair cost the UK in his warmongering? I could go on for days ,but you get my drift .Better together.

JASV8S
ALPIN
ALPIN
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Post by JASV8S » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:00 pm

The politicians who drove the Scottish Parliament building, Gordon and Tony are all the Better Together people as well.
John
Alpina Blue B10 V8S #54 Saloon
Bronze F30 Xdrive
Silver E90 325iSE (sold)
Blue Mini Cooper (sold)

Kentish man
ALP
ALP
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:03 am
Location: Gravesend Kent

Independance Day

Post by Kentish man » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:19 pm

John.That's not the point. What my rant inferred was ,could Scotland afford these measures without westminster?

Chas
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 3993
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Independance Day

Post by Chas » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:19 pm

Kentish man wrote:John.That's not the point. What my rant inferred was ,could Scotland afford these measures without westminster?
I'm not sure what your point is, in that case. Why do you want to subsidise a bunch of moaners who are profligate with your hard-earned taxes.

[Sorry but there's not a smiley for irony :roll: ]

Kentish man
ALP
ALP
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:03 am
Location: Gravesend Kent

Scottish Independance

Post by Kentish man » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:50 pm

I thought it was you lot ,who advocate leaving the UK who were the moaners. In words of few syllables please explain what we've done wrong to warrant your desire to go your lonely way,alone and unloved,cast adrift from mainstream political debate,splendid in your isolation.

ali
ALPINA
ALPINA
Posts: 2025
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:40 am
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Scottish Independance

Post by ali » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:00 pm

Kentish man wrote:I thought it was you lot ,who advocate leaving the UK who were the moaners. In words of few syllables please explain what we've done wrong to warrant your desire to go your lonely way,alone and unloved,cast adrift from mainstream political debate,splendid in your isolation.
300 years of getting shafted by Westminster for starters ......

And what's with all this "you lot" nonsense?
The vote is open to all residents of Scotland who are not all Scottish
The independence vote is not an anti English thing at all so please stop looking at it that way.
It is a chance that us Scots have to rule our own destiny.
Whether we end up better or worse of than our neighbours is totally irrelevant.
We are but a Colony bought by Westminster in the 17th Century for £20,000
Yes that's all. £350 - £450 to the right people in Scotland who sold our country down the river
B3 3.3 Touring #108
B10 V8 #540
B3 3.0 Biturbo #107
E46 M3 Convertible

Post Reply